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[00:46] <Strangerke> Hum :( If someone sees LubomirR on the channel, could you please ask them to urgently write me a mail about Mutation of JB?
[00:54] <Lightkey> I wrote him an e-mail
[00:55] <Strangerke> ho, thanks
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[01:08] <GitHub115> [scummvm] dreammaster pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vNArt
[01:08] <GitHub115> scummvm/master 4ce615b Paul Gilbert: XEEN: Fixes for initial start of World ending
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[01:39] <timofonic> Hello
[01:39] <Joefish> nice the freeware version of IDA was updated to 7.0!
[01:39] <Joefish> hey timofonic
[01:39] <timofonic> Did the hell is frozen now? Please explain this!!!!1111111 https://github.com/adventuregamestudio/scummvm/tree/ags
[01:40] <timofonic> Joefish: What about using Open Source tools like radare2?
[01:41] <Joefish> I use radare as well but personally I find it quite hard to work with
[01:41] <dreammaster> Interesting. On both counts.. IDA & AGS
[01:42] <dreammaster> Is morganwillcock the user that recently said he'd start working on AGS?
[01:44] <timofonic> dreammaster: Artistic License is incompatible with GPL? :P
[01:44] <timofonic> https://github.com/radare/radare2 <-- Can this be a replacement of IDA?
[01:44] <dreammaster> No idea.
[01:45] <timofonic> https://rada.re
[01:50] <timofonic> They even have an IRC channel #radare
[01:50] <timofonic> Maybe Radare can be an alternative to IDA ;)
[01:59] <timofonic> About wjp idados and such.... https://github.com/joncampbell123/dosbox-x/issues/195 https://github.com/joncampbell123/dosbox-x/issues/351
[01:59] <timofonic> dosdos-x seems a more inclusive fork of dosbox :)
[02:06] <timofonic> What about trying and providing feedback to radare2? It's Open Source :)
[02:07] <samhere6> Hello people
[02:07] <dreammaster> G'day
[02:07] <timofonic> dreammaster: Did you try Radare2?
[02:08] <samhere6> I'm a student in final year of uni...was hoping to hang around and learn stuff. Special interst in game dev and phyiscs programming specifically
[02:08] <dreammaster> Not previously, I'm happy with IDA
[02:09] <dreammaster> Certainly. Welcome to the channel :). Hopefully you'll find something to interest you
[02:10] <samhere6> Also was considering throwing my hat in the ring for gsoc but we'll see about that
[02:10] <timofonic> dreammaster: Conformity is the jailer of freedom. IDA Pro is proprietary, Radare2 is Open Souce ;)
[02:10] <samhere6> Thanks for the warm welcome dreammaster. Looking forward to learning from the gang
[02:10] <dreammaster> If you're interested in physics programming, I know there's a whole folder for the starmap puzzle of Starship Titanic in engines/titanic/star_control that could use some TLC with 3d math knowledge. Also, our sister project Residual deals with 3D games which might tickle your fancy
[02:11] <timofonic> dreammaster: What about Blade Runner and those nasty voxels?
[02:11] <dreammaster> Good point. That may be something you find interesting as well
[02:12] <timofonic> I find voxels harder to understand than polygons :P
[02:13] <samhere6> I'll look in to that. Thanks for the info dreammaster
[02:14] <samhere6> I'll have to admit though. Still a "noob"
[02:14] <timofonic> dreammaster: Despite your happiness with IDA, Radare2 is Open Source and that might make it easier for newcomers and more friendly with Open Source :)
[02:15] <dreammaster> No problem. We all started out as "noobs" :)
[02:15] <timofonic> dreammaster: About the GUI... I have no idea, it seems to be more arcane...
[02:15] <Zorix> ida gui got stuck back in windows 95 heh
[02:16] <timofonic> dreammaster: They presume to have more features than IDA
[02:16] <timofonic> Zorix: Yep. Radare2 is into DOS era. More retro! But there are alternative GUIs
[02:16] <snover> timofonic: do you do reverse engineering?
[02:16] <Zorix> played with both before
[02:17] <Zorix> they both irritate me
[02:17] <Zorix> heh
[02:17] <timofonic> snover: It's my dream before death. Now I'm just struggling to fix the ACPI of my laptop :P
[02:17] <dreammaster> Well, in my case, IDA is the simplest option because my current game, Xeen, is already in IDA. As is the in-progress work for the Legend games. Plus when Strangerke and/or I eventually work on Martian Memorandum and the later MADS games, we also have the IDBs of the earlier games as reference, so using IDA will be easier
[02:18] <snover> ok. so i would definitely suggested to not advocate tools which you have not used, until you use them :)
[02:18] <timofonic> Zorix: You have nothing to lose then. Rdare2 is Ope Source. I have no idea if IDBs can be imported to Radare2
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[02:19] <Zorix> yea
[02:19] <timofonic> snover: I'm not advocating, just suggesting to more skilled people to take a look at it
[02:19] <dreammaster> Well, in my opinion, the more options available, the better.
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[02:21] <timofonic> snover, dreammaster https://radare2.securisec.com//home#ida-to-radare-2
[02:21] <timofonic> dreammaster: And radare2 is Open Source too...
[02:22] <samhere6> dreammaster: can you point me to reources to the two projects you mentioned. Id be gratefuk
[02:22] <dreammaster> Hmmm.. I wonder if there's any version restriction on how recent the IDB can be. After all, Bindiff doesn't work on the newest version yet
[02:22] <dreammaster> Sure. First of all, the ResidualVM project is http://www.residualvm.org//
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[02:23] <dreammaster> As for the other two, simply check out our source code and check out engines/titanic/star_control and engines/bladerunner
[02:23] <timofonic> dreammaster: Star Control 2 for ScummVM? :D
[02:24] <timofonic> Oops, sorry. My mind got crazy :P
[02:24] <dreammaster> In the case of Starship Titanic, the 3D starmap is the very last puzzle of the game, and involves locking onto three different stars in a 3D starmap. So there's a lot of matrix transformations, viewports, and moving cameras.
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[02:24] <dreammaster> I named everything as best I could, but there's still a lot unnamed methods and variables that are probably recognizable to someone with 3d math experience that could be given proper names
[02:24] <samhere6> Thanks a lot, dreammaster. I have got to say this is my best irc experience ever.
[02:24] <dreammaster> timofonic: And the jokes been done already :)
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[02:26] <dreammaster> Happy to help. The channel isn't always active at all times of the day, but feel free to ask questions anytime. Even if no-one answers immediately, someone will eventually. Plus, you can see channel logs at logs.scummvm.org
[02:26] <timofonic> dreammaster: Matrix, Neo, Trinity, Morpheus
[02:26] <timofonic> dreammaster: oops
[02:27] <dreammaster> What is the matrix?
[02:27] <Zorix> i was just going to say that
[02:27] <Zorix> heh
[02:27] <dreammaster> :)
[02:27] <Zorix> you know that movie dates us now
[02:28] <timofonic> dreammaster: Star Control 2 ? Ur-Quan Masters is part adventure game, part RPG and part dgfighting (or whatever is that thing about fighting with ships)...
[02:28] <timofonic> dreammaster: Matrix is The Cabal!
[02:28] <dreammaster> It's probably classed most as a strategy game, given the whole fundamental resource management
[02:29] <Zorix> SC2 is well maintained from the 3do port in UQM now
[02:29] <dreammaster> Strategy/simulation
[02:29] <timofonic> dreammaster: Well, it's a mixed-genre game. It has important part of strategy and simulation, but also adventure game too...
[02:30] <dreammaster> Yes. I saw that when it first announced. Though I never replayed it. I played the original, but unashamedly used a trainer so that I didn't need to worry about actually collecting resources. I just wanted to meet the aliens, fight in battles, and enjoy the story
[02:30] <timofonic> Zorix: Well, relatively mantained. I'm sure it will be ported to lots more platforms if part of ScummVM :)
[02:30] <snover> dreammaster: you know, im still waiting for someone to test https://github.com/avast-tl/retdec to see how it works, im not sure anyone saw when i mentioned it before. i was going to give it a go, i have not had time yet though.
[02:30] <Zorix> it's working, has been for many years, and it will go wherever SDL goes so it doesnt need much more
[02:31] <timofonic> dreammaster: There's a hardcore SC2 community. They remaked the music, then made a HD remake too. Then there's another fork too...
[02:31] <timofonic> Zorix: But being part of ScummVM is the best thing since sliced bread, it would gain lots of ports magically :D
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[02:32] <Zorix> it doesnt belong in scummvm
[02:32] <timofonic> Zorix: Why not? ScummVM accepts RPG games, what about adventure+strategy+simulation? There's adventure at least
[02:33] <dreammaster> Tell me about it. Time is always the issue. I spent too much of my leisure time as it working on ScummVM and not doing other fun things like actually playing games in my backlog. I'm up to hundreds at this point, including Fallout 4, Wasteland 2, the Kingdom Hearts PS3 remakes, Asassin's Creed origins, Legend of Heroes games, and others I'm probably forgetting :o
[02:33] <Zorix> have you even looked at the kinds of games that are in scummvm? its not even related
[02:35] <snover> given there is not infinite manpower it seems like a bad choice to expend effort on trying to work on a game which already exists and is open and well-supported elsewhere.
[02:35] <Zorix> i agree
[02:36] <timofonic> dreammaster: My only fun are computers and cats. I temporarily abandoned to have a girlfriend. I'm crazy, but those I found are more insane than me! I want to stop procrastinating and start computer programming :P
[02:36] <dreammaster> Likewise. Lets save all such efforts to getting AGS integrated first. Particularly now that the Sierra games are (mostly) all supported :)
[02:37] <timofonic> snover: Okay, that's OK. But those devs would agree to become part of the ScummVM family too in case that happens :)
[02:37] <timofonic> dreammaster: Oh yes, AGS. Fuck yeah!
[02:37] <timofonic> And Legend Entertainment. And Quandaries too :P
[02:38] <timofonic> dreammaster: Nah, ScummVM is retro...
[02:38] <timofonic> Sonic Mania would be OK to add... :P
[02:39] <dreammaster> Hmmm... according to Wikipedia, the first version was released in 1997. That definitely makes it old enough to qualify :)
[02:40] <timofonic> dreammaster:But 3D?
[02:40] <Zorix> you really need a certain kind of mind set to be successful at computer programming beyond simple things
[02:40] <dreammaster> Yeh, probably not. If there are any 3D games using AGS, maybe that could be done by ResidualVM one day
[02:41] <snover> timofonic: ok, find a bunch of developers with free time who will do it and then convince them to do it :)
[02:41] <snover> (for all suggestions)
[02:41] <timofonic> Zorix: I'm legally crazy. Is that good to learn computer programming? :P
[02:41] <dreammaster> For that matter, I'll love to see Discworld Noir supported by either ScummVM or ResidualVM. The previous two times I tried replaying it, I couldn't get it to work, no matter what compatibility settings I used
[02:41] <timofonic> snover: Can I kidnap them?
[02:42] <Zorix> timofonic, dont know.. you need to understand complex and abstract things
[02:42] <timofonic> Zorix: My mind is full of insane complex and abstract shit all time :P
[02:43] <Zorix> then go learn a useful language and try something
[02:43] <timofonic> Zorix: I need to control my ADHD and hyperfocus to learn some useful language :P
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[02:44] <timofonic> C? C++? Are there other useful languages beyond that? :D
[02:45] <Zorix> it all depends on what your goals are
[02:45] <timofonic> Zorix: OCD goals, mainly
[02:46] <Zorix> you wont get far until you learn to focus
[02:46] <Zorix> i have been working on one project for almost 4 years now
[02:46] <Zorix> and its not even 20% done or so
[02:46] <timofonic> Zorix: I focus when I get enough motivated. I want to reverse engineer old games and other retro stuff :D
[02:47] <Zorix> got a long ways to go then heh
[02:47] <timofonic> I'm a retrocomputing and retrogaming nerd and frustrated electronics hobbyist...
[02:48] <Zorix> i do reverse engineering and emulation in mame and i also do pcb repairs, stuff like that
[02:48] <timofonic> I also have agoraphobia, so I can be all day at the computer :P
[02:48] <timofonic> Oh, great!!
[02:49] <timofonic> I would love someday MAME gets able to be compiled to FPGA :)
[02:49] <Zorix> thats not how fpgas work.. or mame for that matter.. heh
[02:49] <timofonic> Zorix: I know. but there's new stuff like SystemC and such...
[02:50] <timofonic> Maybe a progressive rewritting to be able to compile as program or FPGA byte...code...bitwise?/..bitwhat?
[02:51] <Zorix> most things in mame.. the things you'd want to simulate in hardware.. would require very large fpgas if at all possible.. which would be very expensive and likely never even run at full speed
[02:51] <timofonic> Zorix: What about GPUs?
[02:51] <Zorix> fpgas have a bitstream protocol that is unique to each manufacturer
[02:51] <timofonic> Zorix: Yes, FPGAs suck :P
[02:51] <Zorix> a gpu is not very useful in this situation
[02:52] <Zorix> i get the impression you are quite young...
[02:55] <Zorix> anyways the scope of this conversation is outside of the channel's topic so it might be something better suited to a private message, as to not disturb anyone else here
[02:55] <snover> Zorix: since you mention mame, have you happened to have ever done anything with the ymf262 implementation? i tried adding it to our mame OPL code, and discovered that it is sometimes outputting only to the left channel.
[02:55] <Zorix> oh hmm.. i dont have any audio experience tbh
[02:55] <snover> no worries, it was a shot in the dark :)
[02:56] <Zorix> ive been focused on a single driver that i have written with the help of a friend
[02:56] <Zorix> it has no audio hehe
[02:56] <Zorix> i wonder if the left only channel is an indication of a mono source
[02:56] <snover> well, its not just like audio never plays to the right channel, its missing individual notes.
[02:57] <Zorix> oh
[02:57] <snover> the DOSBox OPL3 emulator has no such problem and ive verified the OPL data from the engine are identical to the ones sent by the original interpreter
[02:58] <Zorix> has this driver in mame been tested?
[02:58] <Zorix> id have to check if the pc at driver has an isa card with that chip on it
[03:00] <snover> i dont know, i only very recently noticed this problem (i had been using dual-opl2) and so havent really done any more troubleshooting. im pretty sure there was one using it, since i had to figure out how it was initialised, though i may have only found the OPL2 and then just figured out the init routines since the two chips are basically identical in that regard
[03:01] <snover> i updated the mame code on my working branch months ago and only started using it in the last week
[03:03] <Zorix> ah
[03:03] <Zorix> yea its a good size driver
[03:03] <Zorix> mame has a monthly release schedule
[03:03] <Zorix> last wednesday every month
[03:04] <snover> sierra never used any of the extra opl3 features anyway so im not actually sure if we have any engines which use the extra voices for this to really matter on any practical level.
[03:04] <snover> voices/waveforms
[03:04] <Zorix> well its a good idea to support it, never know what the future brings anyways
[03:04] <Zorix> it was nice that you guys emualte mt-32 as well.. i assume some shared code with munt?
[03:05] <snover> yes, its just a copy of munt. it would be used as an external library except there is a chicken-and-egg problem going on in terms of getting the library into distributions so that it can be used as a library
[03:06] <Zorix> ah
[03:08] <Zorix> how far are you emulating the OPL? just as the chip or as the soundblaster device?
[03:10] <Zorix> ah i see, you got mame, dosbox, and alsa
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[03:12] <snover> yes. for emulation its just the chip, my updated implementation is at https://github.com/csnover/scummvm/blob/working/audio/softsynth/opl/mame.cpp
[03:13] <Zorix> ah
[03:13] <Zorix> now im no expert but since some of this is a direct copy, it may need a copyright attribute
[03:13] <snover> the code which was copied is attributed.
[03:14] <snover> that file is not a copy of anything, that is original code.
[03:14] <Zorix> ah yes i see
[03:15] <Zorix> the one you linked yea
[03:15] <Zorix> thats definitely not mame code heh
[03:15] <Zorix> i was looking at https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/blob/master/audio/softsynth/opl/mame.cpp
[03:16] <snover> as far as soundblaster device goes, their programmers guide documentation on the FM synthesiser is thus: The FM synthesizer chips used on Sound Blaster cards are YAMAHA OPL2 and OPL3 chips. For more detailed documentation, please contact the vendor.
[03:17] <snover> so afaict all their card does is wire up the pins.
[03:17] <Zorix> could be
[03:17] <Zorix> no sound expert.. by far
[03:17] <Zorix> heh
[03:18] <Zorix> i like how you structured the mame implementation though..
[03:18] <snover> thanks!
[03:18] <Zorix> makes it easier to pull in updates
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[03:19] <Zorix> even down to using mame's typedef's hehe
[03:19] <snover> i mean, i even debated on whether to just put a patch file in there instead.
[03:20] <snover> the ifdefs make it easier to see the code all together, and, are not as great as having a patch file for doing updates.
[03:20] <snover> software programming is one unending series of compromises.
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[03:20] <Zorix> keep in mind too that mame is c++14
[03:21] <Zorix> so you may get some uglyness if that driver uses any of those features and you arent using that standard
[03:21] <Zorix> i dont know what you guys use
[03:21] <snover> yes, i know this. and i support that mame is doing that. i hope someday scummvm will do that too.
[03:23] <Zorix> https://github.com/csnover/scummvm/blob/working/audio/softsynth/opl/mame/fmopl.h#L6
[03:23] <Zorix> i dont see that header
[03:23] <snover> its fake
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[03:23] <snover> oh, you mean you dont see that file at all
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[03:24] <Zorix> exactly
[03:24] <snover> thats&weird&
[03:26] <Zorix> all drivers in mame call that header
[03:26] <Zorix> you have a fake one, you probably should be using that i guess
[03:27] <snover> i think i might have accidentally committed that file when i was still working on creating the fake-emu.h
[03:27] <Zorix> ah
[03:27] <snover> nothing includes it, so thats why it is broken
[03:28] <snover> the correct one is in audio/softsynth/opl/mame/sound/fmopl.h
[03:28] <snover> thanks for noticing that.
[03:28] <snover> im sick at the moment and my brain is getting angry for thinking so hard so i am going to have to stop talking about this for now :)
[03:29] <Zorix> ah yes that looks better
[03:29] <Zorix> np
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[03:34] <Zorix> well anyways good luck with it.. if you really get stuck i may be able to ping one of the mame guys and see if its a known issue with that implementation or something else
[03:35] <Zorix> mostly the work i have been doing in mame on my driver is simulating functionality in custom asics and logic arrays
[03:35] <Zorix> so nothing as fun as sound or even video.. its all serial
[03:41] <snover> well, people often like to work on the flashy things, but work like that is critical, so kudos to you for doing it
[03:42] <Lightkey> flash *ugh*
[03:44] <Zorix> hehe
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[08:06] <P2E> my chiptune tracker can boop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hodW5E7nPhM
[08:06] <P2E> gonna see about getting an OPL in there, maybe attempt to get DOS games to control one
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[09:01] <waltervn> morning
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[09:26] <P2E> mornin
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[10:26] <Joefish> morning
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[14:50] <Strangerke> hi guys
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[14:50] <GitHub50> [scummvm] bonki pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vNxUD

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[14:50] <bonki> Hi Strangerke!
[14:50] <bonki> :)
[14:51] <Strangerke> hey bonki :)
[14:53] <LubomirR> Hi Strangerke, I sent you an e-mail about Mutation of JB.
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[15:10] <Strangerke> hey, I just answered :)
[15:10] <Strangerke> Thanks for being so fast
[15:10] <Strangerke> It was only to give you the context
[15:12] <Strangerke> I'm at Fosdem right now so I won't stay connected for long
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[15:47] <GitHub198> [scummvm] rootfather pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vNxqd
[15:47] <GitHub198> scummvm/master 56f9002 rootfather: NEWS: Update German NEWS file
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[16:22] <peterkohaut> LubomirR: how far are you with that mutation of j.b.? because i was reving that game some time ago
[16:30] <LubomirR> peterkohaut: https://gitlab.com/LubomirR/mutation-of-jb-tools
[16:32] <LubomirR> (We haven't started the engine yet.)
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[19:33] <Lightkey> https://twitter.com/a2_4am/status/959130272863223812 yay for piracy!
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[20:55] <bonki> Do we have a policy against enhancements like these? https://bugs.scummvm.org/ticket/10424
[20:56] <Zorix> dont see why it couldnt be optional
[20:56] <bonki> Seems like something we would want and it's easy to implement so there must be a reason why it's not in e.g. SCUMM
[20:57] <dreammaster> There's certainly nothing wrong with adding new functionality to the games. I've done it all the time.
[20:57] <dreammaster> Like in Titanic, I added mouse wheel scrolling for viewing the past conversation log, and scrolling through items. I also added keyboard movement keys, which wasn't present in the original
[20:59] <bonki> Then I'll just go ahead I guess. Am I right to believe that checking Common::EVENT_WHEELUP/WHEELDOWN is enough and that it will work as expected in all backends?
[21:00] <dreammaster> Well, it's safe to check for them. But not all backends will implement it. In fact, even on PC systems, a mouse without a mouse wheel can never possibly generate that event
[21:01] <bonki> No, of course not
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[21:11] <GitHub102> [scummvm] bonki pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vNx0o

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[21:17] <rsn8887> @bonki: wow you are fast
[21:17] <bonki> :)
[21:18] <bonki> All those hard-coded coordinates give me a headache, though
[21:18] <bonki> I need to rewrite this with Rects
[21:31] <bonki> rsn8887: I think we can close the FF lipsync bug (10407) now that it's merged?
[21:31] <rsn8887> Yes definitely
[21:32] <samhere6> Morning people
[21:32] <dreammaster> G'day
[21:34] <samhere6> I gotta ask how do you go about revere engineering a game?
[21:35] <dreammaster> Well, a good starting point would be an article I wrote on the wiki website: http://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php/HOWTO-Reverse_Engineering
[21:35] <dreammaster> It has some links to tools and resources, as well as some general tips and tricks
[21:36] <rsn8887> Bonki: done
[21:37] <samhere6> Thanks dream... On it!
[21:38] <dreammaster> In my opinion, the more people willing to tackle reverse engineering games the better. Means more supported games in the long run :)
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[21:49] <samhere6> Well, Ive read most of it and dare I say it sounds difficult but definitely rewarding
[21:51] <dreammaster> I certainly have had a lot of fun doing it. It can be compared to a giant jigsaw puzzle; I get a thrill as I slow figure out the "edge" pieces of the game, and slowly pry out it's secrets more and more.
[21:53] <samhere6> That is very well put
[21:53] <dreammaster> Though there has been frustrating times. Like with the Legend game I may move onto after I finish on Xeen.. the games have an overlay system that was a pain for properly even disassembling the executables. I had to write a big tool just to figure out all the parts of the game, and lay them end to end and fix up calls between them, just to produce a dummy executable that IDA could actually
[21:53] <dreammaster> disassemble. :P
[21:54] <samhere6> Dang!
[21:55] <samhere6> In todays world doesnt every game use an overlay?
[21:56] <dreammaster> Not really. It was really just a problem back in the DOS days, before they started using DOS4GW, or Windows executables. DOS executables were limited in that the executable had to fit into main memory when run.
[21:56] <dreammaster> Hence overlays were a way to have parts of the executable, or even as a separate file, with bits loaded into and out of memory as needed.
[21:57] <dreammaster> These days, executables can be multi-hundred megabytes and loaded in their entirety without trouble
[21:57] <samhere6> And todays executables?
[21:57] <samhere6> Well these multihudred megabyte executables dont make it any easy on the reverse engineering do they
[21:58] <dreammaster> Though, it's unlikely any of the games we deal with would be that big. Starship Titanic, for example, was only 4Mb. And I consider that one of the more complicated games.
[21:58] <dreammaster> And a portion of that was all data tables, so the actual code count would be smaller
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[22:38] <GitHub83> [scummvm] waltervn pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vNx2k
[22:38] <GitHub83> scummvm/master a063184 Walter van Niftrik: ADL: Remove hardcoded disk image filename from hires1
[22:38] <GitHub83> scummvm/master bdda344 Walter van Niftrik: ADL: Add support for an early hires1 version
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[23:00] <bonki> rsn8887: Thanks!
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[23:23] <Drenn> I came across this post from clone2727, regarding interplay's star trek:
[23:23] <Drenn> "Writing an x86 emulator for "scripts" would not make a good GSoC project."
[23:23] <Drenn> and yeah, now I can confirm that the game has x86 code embedded in its "room data files", mixed in with other data... so that kind of sucks
[23:25] <Drenn> I'll keep looking into it but I might end up looking for a different project
[23:26] <dreammaster> Ah, that sucks. Speaking as one whose last several game engines have all had hardcoded room scripts, it's a time consuming pain to reverse and implement everything :P
[23:27] <Drenn> yup, I don't doubt it
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[23:36] <dreammaster> Unfortunately, it can require some reverse engineering effort to even find out how much or little a game has scripts that don't need to be reversed. And by the stage you figure that out, it can be hard to simply abandon work on the game entirely. Of course, in my case, I've got the obstinance to actually keep plowing through the reverse process. So it's not too bad. ;)
[23:38] <Drenn> I mean, I obviously have an emotional investment already =P
[23:38] <Drenn> I'm just thinking in terms of how likely it would be that this project is accepted for GSoC
[23:38] <Drenn> since the details of specific cutscenes could take a large chunk of the time
[23:41] <dreammaster> Ah, yes. Games based on reverse engineering are unlikely to be accepted in my opinion. Unless a previous disassembly was already entirely completed beforehand. There simply wouldn't be enough time during GSOC to fully reverse a game, let alone implement it from scratch
[23:42] <dreammaster> If you're really interested in doing a game, look into the feasability of games or authoring systems where the code is already available.
[23:43] <Drenn> I may consider that, but the reverse-engineering is the part I like the most =P
[23:45] <snover> bring your own game *is* one of the GSoC ideas
[23:45] <dreammaster> I can understand that. One option is, if you'll still be eligible for GSOC next year, to try for a simpler project this year, and then work on reversing a game from scratch afterwards to ready for the start of GSOC next year. There's no guarantee you'd be accepted next year, but you could at least try
[23:46] <Drenn> I'll be graduating next year, so that's not an option
[23:46] <dreammaster> And failing acceptance, work on supporting your game outside of GSOC
[23:46] <dreammaster> Ah. Pity indeed.
[23:46] <Drenn> I DO have experience reverse-engineering already, but it's for the gameboy, which is much simpler
[23:47] <Drenn> snover: given that this game may have a good deal of hard-coded stuff, do you think that would make it unlikely to be accepted?
[23:51] <snover> its unclear to me what are the criteria by which entries are judged, i think i have only as much as information as you in this regard. a first step is to try to break down tasks to figure out how much can be done in the three months of GSoC, and then once you know what that end milestone might be, it should be easier to make a judgment on whether or not it makes sense.
[23:53] <Drenn> I guess that's what I'll need to work on this month
[23:53] <Drenn> I'm assuming it's generally expected that one completes the engine? At least the goal would be to make the game playable from start to finish?
[23:54] <snover> i dont think there is any expectation that the engine would be finished. a strong unfinished foundation is better than a complete house of cards.
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