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[06:50] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> _sev So this is regarding MEAN as you had asked
[06:53] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> firstly, the whole stack would be in JS, thus making it much easier for future contributors to understand the code and get started on it (especially given the growing popularity of JS in the industry)
[06:53] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> Secondly, it would be very simple to install packages because of the use of npm with node (in backend)
[06:53] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> https://github.com/linnovate/mean
[06:54] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> ^that is a popular MEAN framework, and you can try running it to check out how it'd work
[06:55] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> If i was to take this up, i'd make my own MEAN stack, with all of the above, but instead use material-angular for the frontend: https://material.angularjs.org/latest/
[06:55] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> ^that would make maintanence and adding of UX/UI features to the front end much easier. In fact, with this frontend developers don't even need to look into backend code
[06:56] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> (i'd suggest visiting https://material.angularjs.org/latest/ to get an idea of how the front end would look)
[06:57] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> Also, since we'd be using MongoDB for the backend, all out data would be written in JSON (thus making conversion of xml to JSON easier), and also make it highly scalable and way easier to use than sql imo
[06:59] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> I can't send you a demo without expecting you to run it on your side so i'm not doing so, but i'm guessing checking out the MEAN sample code that i sent should be more than enough to understand how easy it'd be to make, maintain and understand this code from start (also, the mean.io repo i sent a link for has too many unnecessary js files that wouldn't be required if we were making the website from scratch)
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[07:42] <rootfather> oh, windows 10 fetching updates again
[07:42] <rootfather> I noticed that because my usable internet connection dropped to a whopping 5kbit/s,
[07:43] <rootfather> damn, I hate it that windows simply takes all the bandwidth from the entire network.
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[07:48] <waltervn> morning
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[07:57] <exmensa> rootfather: you can limit the BITS download speed to ease up on your network. I can't find the thread I followed about it, but this looks similar: https://thomas-barthelemy.github.io/2016/08/12/windows-update-bandwidth/
[08:05] <rootfather> thanks exmensa
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[08:07] <Strangerke> hi guys
[08:10] <rootfather> hi Strangerke
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[08:15] <rootfather> does the new "Pointer Speed" setting has any effect on all platforms or is this just specific to the vita port?
[08:16] <rootfather> I couldn't notice any difference on my windows build
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[08:27] <GitHub94> [scummvm] criezy pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vylG9
[08:27] <GitHub94> scummvm/master 1638935 Lothar Serra Mari: I18N: Update translation (German)...
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[08:33] <_sev> FleetAdmiral[m]1: MongoDB? O_o
[08:33] <_sev> FleetAdmiral[m]1: I highly recommend to study functionality of our site, so you know what is actually needed feature-wise
[08:35] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> I did, and exactly why i recommended MEAN in the first place :D. Of course, since scalability is not something we require, mongoDB is redundant but its till strongly recommended because of how easy it is to integrate with JS. From what i could see, the website could benefit a lot from being made a single page application
[08:36] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> ^my main aim for suggesting MEAN was making it a single page application + improving front end/making it more user readable/friendly/de-cluttering and making it more pleasant with material + being easy for future contributors to understand code
[08:43] <rootfather> okay, I have the intense feeling that the "Control -> Pointer Speed" setting should not be visible on desktop systems
[08:43] <rootfather> am i right?
[08:43] <rootfather> _sev, is Full Pipe support good enough to mention it in the NEWS?
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[08:47] <GitHub72> [scummvm] sev- pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vylZm
[08:47] <GitHub72> scummvm/master 0c1c7b6 Eugene Sandulenko: NEWS: Mention Full Pipe support
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[08:47] <_sev> rootfather: indeed, that was overlooked
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[08:47] <GitHub5> [scummvm] criezy pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vylZ3
[08:47] <GitHub5> scummvm/master 3fbeaf6 George Kormendi: I18N: Update translation (Hungarian)...
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[08:54] <_sev> FleetAdmiral[m]1: so, I need to see a sample
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[08:57] <rootfather> Tkachov, your FlatUI mockups look quite nice
[08:58] <Tkachov> rootfather: thanks! =)
[08:59] <rootfather> are those simply mockups at the moment or do you have some WIP code yet? :P
[08:59] <Tkachov> just pictures
[09:00] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> _sev
[09:01] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> I think it'll be easiest if i make a mockup of the scummvm website in MEAN and show you the same
[09:01] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> give me some time, i'll do the same and get back to you :)
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[09:40] <t0by> Aaaand good morning.
[09:42] <t0by> I am a bad person
[09:43] <t0by> I didn't even realize the Google announcement date passed right in front of my eyes... and ScummVM was accepted!
[09:43] <t0by> Yay!
[09:44] <t0by> Strangerke: wow :)
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[10:19] <wjp> flatui mockups?
[10:21] <wanwan> you're flattening me!
[10:25] <_sev> wjp: http://planet.scummvm.org/
[10:25] <wjp> oh :/
[10:27] <wjp> I really dislike the whole 'flat' direction for UI design
[10:28] <wjp> seems to have forgotten all about discoverability and affordances
[10:28] <t0by> I think discoverability is a huge problem with UI design in general in 2017
[10:29] <t0by> What affordances are you talking about though? :)
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[10:31] <wjp> http://www.usabilityfirst.com/glossary/affordance/
[10:32] <wjp> (and just to be clear, I'm talking about the general trend, not specifically about tkachov's post)
[10:33] <_sev> wjp: I have exactly the same feelings
[10:33] <_sev> wjp: Material design from Google and iOS7 from Apple were just IMHO killing creativity
[10:34] <t0by> Oh, that.
[10:34] <_sev> and it's sad to see now all of that plastic feeling all around
[10:34] <t0by> Yes. That's a big problem as well.
[10:35] <t0by> I deal on a frequent basis with people who just aren't *that* comfortable around computers, and they often tell me "wait, how was I supposed to know I could click on that thing?"
[10:35] <_sev> just five years ago those were called "design mockups" and "wireframes", not the "finished designs"
[10:36] <t0by> Hamburger symbols for menus instead of "Menu" or "Options" is another thing that doesn't usually sit well with users that don't know what the menu they are looking for *is supposed to look like*.
[10:38] <_sev> t0by: precisely
[10:38] <_sev> at my current company we ran A/B test. People do not understand it: https://blog.booking.com/hamburger-menu.html
[10:38] <t0by> But hey, it lets designers hide options under the rug :)
[10:38] <t0by> _sev, neat, thanks
[10:39] <t0by> > The hamburger icon is a classic. Even if you don't know it by that name, its three black bars are as familiar as your mouse's cursora constant companion on your cyber journey since the day you got your first computer"
[10:39] <t0by> wha-
[10:39] <t0by> ...I'm pretty positive Windows 3.1 didn't have it...
[10:41] <t0by> Uh, but...
[10:41] <t0by> _sev, that post seems to say... the opposite.
[10:41] <t0by> "With our very large user base, we are able to state with a very high confidence that, specifically for Booking.com users, the hamburger icon performs just as well as the more descriptive version"
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[10:56] <Deledrius> It goes back to Xerox or something, but it wasn't used until a few years ago. :/ Not exactly universal (for good reason)
[10:57] <Deledrius> *wasn't widely used
[11:10] <logix> t0by: windows 1.0: http://i.imgur.com/P01g364.png
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[11:47] <WooShell> good meowning =^.^=
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[12:05] <GitHub186> [scummvm] lubomyr opened pull request #916: ANDROIDSDL: libcurl and sdl_net is enabled by default (master...master) https://git.io/vyl4b
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[14:47] <GitHub51> [scummvm] criezy pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vylgh
[14:47] <GitHub51> scummvm/master 3a0bc46 Ben Castricum: I18N: Update translation (Dutch)...
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[14:59] <GitHub153> [scummvm] dreammaster pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vyl2o
[14:59] <GitHub153> scummvm/master f040c1b Paul Gilbert: TITANIC: Implementing starfield methods
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[16:04] <travis-ci> scummvm/scummvm#2956 (master - f040c1b : Paul Gilbert): The build has errored.
[16:04] <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/compare/3a0bc46eb1db...f040c1bc91c4
[16:04] <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/scummvm/scummvm/builds/207916376
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[16:43] <GitHub119> [scummvm] criezy pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vylKo
[16:43] <GitHub119> scummvm/master bfcfc54 Timo Mikkolainen: I18N: Update translation (Finnish)...
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[16:59] <travis-ci> scummvm/scummvm#2957 (master - bfcfc54 : Timo Mikkolainen): The build passed.
[16:59] <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/compare/f040c1bc91c4...bfcfc54b0493
[16:59] <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/scummvm/scummvm/builds/207937945
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[18:05] <Deledrius> "From what i could see, the website could benefit a lot from being made a single page application" >_> This is almost never the case, and certainly not true for scummvm.org.
[18:11] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> ^could you elaborate on why you feel so?
[18:11] <snover> there is nothing at scummvm.org that should require client-side scripting
[18:11] <snover> if you do what you propose, among other things, you will break search engine indexing
[18:13] <snover> mongodb is also a very poor choice of database
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[19:15] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> ^oh alright, from my limited experience, i've found it easier, as someone who's looked for collaborators and as a collaborator to get acquanted with the project. But of course, you probably have more experience so i'll take your word for it :)
[19:16] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> _sev: I'll still be making the prototype and sending it to you, in case you want to check it out
[19:16] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> if you want me to stick to the current code base, i'll do so :)
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[19:20] <GitHub9> [scummvm] dreammaster pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vylS9
[19:20] <GitHub9> scummvm/master 7e41810 Paul Gilbert: TITANIC: Added remaining CStarField methods
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[19:21] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> snover: I agree that mongo may seem poor to some, but i've been using it for 2 years, and imo when using a JS stack, i find it most convinient to integrate mongo into the same, just because of the sheer number of resources available online for the same
[19:23] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> Deledrius: Since scummvm.org seems to keep a majority of the template same in all the webpages, i felt the need to make it a single page application. Of course, as the mentors/members feel, that can be changed :)
[19:25] <Deledrius> Those two things aren't remotely the same, though.
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[19:25] <Deledrius> "The site maintains a consistent look" != "it should be a web application instead of a website"
[19:27] <snover> mongodb is a great database if you dont care much about losing or corrupting your data :)
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[19:29] <snover> databases like postgres allow storage of unstructured data if you *really* have unstructured data (and arent just lazy and dont want to write a schema), with much stronger guarantees, and good performance
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[19:30] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> Deledrius: I think i do agree with you and would probably come to the same conclusion once i got down to working on the website, thanks for the input :) . Also regarding the entire client side argument, if switching from PHP, we could make any new changes required (rather than just 'porting' it to a new stack/to angular). But if the members feel so, i guess we could just stick to having angular, and maybe a basic
[19:30] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> node server and eliminate any major need for client side (like the current php counterpart)
[19:31] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> snover: So if i was to switch to Angular for first end, do you suggest i stick to fetching information from local sources (maybe a local xml file), rather than having a backend storage?
[19:31] <snover> no, i would object to using angular also :)
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[19:32] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> Oh, why exactly?
[19:34] <snover> the scummvm site isnt a web app
[19:35] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> ^yes, i'd be using Angular (as a front end framework) for 2 particular reasons however: 1) Makes it easier to add material design (hear, Material-Angular), and 2) makes it easier for future contributors to learn the code, even if they haven't ventured into Web Dev yet, since JS is pretty universal anyways
[19:36] <snover> why would the scummvm web site use material design?
[19:36] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> Alright, if i was to continue working on the scummvm website, do you recommend me to continue working on the PHP code? I plan to make UI/UX improvement
[19:37] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> I had suggested that the website looks a bit cluttered right now, and could use some imporvements (which i could do as a part of GSoC), and _sev mentioned that the website did need some visual updates
[19:39] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> i aim to clean the website, make some space/de-clutter the pages, give focus on what is important in every page and the sort, improve the UX, enhance the UI and at the same time try to keep it as light as possible
[19:40] <logix> out of curiosity, what's wrong with a bunch of template files and css that help maintain a consistent look and where the dynamic content is taken from either some simple markup in flat files or a database, and which then generates static html files by running a script (go with a makefile if you prefer that)
[19:40] <logix> plus php for whatever needs that
[19:40] <logix> I assume something like that is how scummvm.org gets built anyway already
[19:40] <logix> so perhaps in other words - make it look nicer using the current infrastructure?
[19:41] <logix> why the need for a "js stack" or whatever
[19:42] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> ^ i could do that, but what i WAS suggesting (i've changed my plans with inputs from snover and Deledrius ) to make a stack so that it would A) organise storing data by storing it in an actual database, rather than locally B) build it in JS so future contributors would find it easier to work on the same C) Make working with material (to enhance UI), easier
[19:44] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> i would still prefer using JS and implementing material with it, but its open to the organisation members as to what they'd like me to do
[19:44] <snover> FleetAdmiral[m]1: if the goal is to improve the UI, i would recommend to start by creating some mockups that show how you think the UI should look
[19:44] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> It was merely a suggestion, but if that is not liked by others, then i might as well stick to PHP
[19:45] <snover> that gives a good starting point to discuss and iterate on
[19:45] <Deledrius> Indeed.
[19:45] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> snover: Oh, alright. I'm sorry i'm not used to working with organisations, so a lot of the structured novelty is new to me :P
[19:46] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> I'll do what you mentioned
[19:46] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> _sev snover Could i keep material in mind when making the mockup?
[19:46] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> You seemed to be dissing on it a while back :P
[19:47] <Deledrius> It's good to start with a goal and then decide how best to achieve it, rather than start from the conclusion of using a tool because you're comfortable with it and only then find ways to make things fit that. ;)
[19:47] <snover> logix: in general, i like static site generators. there are some dynamic parts of the site right now though, that would need to be changed or removed, to build the site that way.
[19:48] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> ^ i'll keep that in mind, thanks a lot Deledrius :)
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[19:55] <snover> FleetAdmiral[m]1: as far as using material design, i think you can take inspiration for the UI from whatever youd like, though if your plan is to just apply the standard material design to the site, that probably would not be well-received. i dont know if you saw the little bit of talk earlier about flat design, but you might want to read that if you havent already.
[19:55] <FleetAdmiral[m]1> I read through, but didn't pay too much heed to it. Will go back and read it up again. Thanks a lot for you help :D
[19:58] <logix> snover: rewriting that or manually keeping the design of the special snowflake parts in sync still sounds less involved than moving to a web app thing :)
[19:58] <logix> perhaps I'm just an old fart who likes static html (unless that really doesn't work functionality wise)
[20:02] <snover> well, yeah. already the site is generating static html, it just does it at request time and then caches most of it, instead of doing it all in advance and just hosting the generated output.
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[20:03] <snover> web platform is kind of in a dark age right now
[20:07] <Deledrius> Yeah. :/
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[20:09] <GitHub33> [scummvm] dreammaster pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vylQg
[20:09] <GitHub33> scummvm/master 15c0cb4 Paul Gilbert: TITANIC: Added remainder of CStarView class
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[20:50] <GitHub68> [scummvm] waltervn pushed 8 new commits to master: https://git.io/vyl5j
[20:50] <GitHub68> scummvm/master e97973a Walter van Niftrik: ADL: Skip deleted files when reading VTOC
[20:50] <GitHub68> scummvm/master 6bd7ca7 Walter van Niftrik: ADL: Move shape drawing into base gfx class
[20:50] <GitHub68> scummvm/master c88d30d Walter van Niftrik: ADL: Allow smaller delays
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[21:02] <GitHub80> [scummvm] rsn8887 opened pull request #917: SDL: Fix trying to init non-supported shaders (master...master) https://git.io/vyldi
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[00:00] --- Mon Mar 6 2017