ScummVM IRC Log - 07 Jul 2017

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[00:14] <snover> hold onto your butts.
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[00:15] <GitHub37> [scummvm] csnover pushed 19 new commits to master: https://git.io/vQr5m
[00:15] <GitHub37> scummvm/master 332fabc Colin Snover: SDL: Only recreate SDL2 window when necessary...
[00:15] <GitHub37> scummvm/master a689fee Colin Snover: SCI32: Speed up & deduplicate palette submission code
[00:15] <GitHub37> scummvm/master f40ea8c Colin Snover: SCI32: Stop setting unused palette timestamp property
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[00:15] <GitHub66> [scummvm] criezy pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQr5O
[00:15] <GitHub66> scummvm/master ae00f58 Thierry Crozat: I18N: Update translations templates
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[00:16] <GitHub190> [scummvm] csnover closed pull request #937: SDL: Only recreate SDL2 window when necessary (master...sdl2-keep-window) https://git.io/vSH4I
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[00:23] <snover> ok buildbot, tell me what i screwed up this time :)
[00:23] <snover> hm! not what i expected.
[00:26] <tsoliman> yay it landed!
[00:26] <tsoliman> next up: vsync :P
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[00:27] <GitHub53> [scummvm] csnover pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQr59
[00:27] <GitHub53> scummvm/master 065dd96 Colin Snover: SDL: Fix compilation with SDL1.2
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[00:29] <tsoliman> snover: https://github.com/tsoliman/scummvm/commit/7eded4bf4d3b6ae6cca8e023d338582b6ea0519e
[00:30] <snover> i accidentally learned the hard way that if an engine is not expecting vsync delay on calls to updateScreen, rendering performance can become very bad.
[00:30] <tsoliman> yeah titanic wasn't a big fan of that patch
[00:31] <snover> there is also a supplementary problem which is the documentation itself for updateScreen says you can call it a bajillion times
[00:31] <snover> This method could be called very often by engines. Backends are hence supposed to only perform any redrawing if it is necessary, and otherwise return immediately.
[00:32] <snover> so the Bad Stuff that happens with vsync may indicate some design issue with the backend code
[00:32] <snover> im not really sure, i just stopped letting SCI32 actually call updateScreen more than once per tick&
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[00:39] <tsoliman> SCI32 is why I use it
[00:40] <tsoliman> mostly because of that tearing issue that I don't remember why it was happening
[00:40] <tsoliman> I will take A/V desync over tearing to a certain extent honestly
[00:41] <tsoliman> I dunno where "improper aspect ratio" fits in and just thinking about ranking the things that unreasonably bother me has made me upset slightly
[00:43] <snover> iirc that issue was also happening due to too many calls
[00:44] <snover> i can validate your feeling of how little things like this build up into real frustration
[00:46] <tsoliman> :)
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[01:05] <snover> i admit i am surprised at the number of toolchains still building with SDL1 on buildbot
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[01:10] <ScummBot_> Port build status changed with 12d24d5b: Failure: master-mingw-w32, master-openpandora, master-amigaos4, master-debian-x86, master-mingw-w64-cplusplus11, master-webos, master-osx_intel, master-caanoo, master-gp2x, master-dingux, master-debian-x86-clang, master-gcw0, master-gp2xwiz, master-mingw-w64
[01:10] <snover> yes, yes.
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[01:13] <snover> at least with these newest commits i can definitively say that scummvm is *significantly* better than the original SCI32 interpreter. no more crappy NN scaling of (most) videos (unless you turn off the new feature).
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[01:19] <tsoliman> what was your test case? GK2?
[01:20] Action: tsoliman reads the comments
[01:20] <tsoliman> KQ7
[01:20] <tsoliman> "SCI32: Allow skipping SEQ animations" !! YES
[01:22] <tsoliman> I was playing the new King's Quest (unrelated to scummvm) the other day and there was a bunch of unskippable cutscenes .. not acceptable in $CURRENT_YEAR
[01:24] <snover> tsoliman: all of them. this applies to everything from SEQ in GK1 up to Duck video in Phant2
[01:25] <Lightkey> *quack*
[01:25] <snover> the only videos that cannot be upscaled with interpolation right now are the ones that get composited into the scene, which is the chase scene in Phant1 and at least some of the video in Rama
[01:28] <snover> in SCI3, all VMDs were composited; I added some heuristic to still allow interpolated scaling when videos dont actually need to be composited, which seems to work OK
[01:30] <tsoliman> I don't think I played Phant1 actually
[01:30] <tsoliman> I remember playing Phant2 and the running gag is that there had to be a ... scene at the end of every disk (chapter?)
[01:31] <snover> i thought the whole game was a running gag&
[01:31] <tsoliman> I remember saying "and so when everyone dies near the end, they still have to put a scene in there, so it's a ghost/dream" (I don't remember but it was a lame excuse)
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[01:31] <tsoliman> I dunno .. the game seems to be played straight
[01:32] <tsoliman> speaking of accidentally (or intentionally?) funny FMV .. did anyone play "Contradiction: Spot the Liar"?
[01:33] <tsoliman> now there's a game where I can't tell if the acting is hammy on purpose or not
[01:33] <snover> oh, i dont mean that they *intended* for it to be a running gag
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[01:36] <snover> never played that one
[01:36] <snover> (or heard of it)
[01:39] <tsoliman> it's worth playing if you're a fan of FMV games
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[01:52] <ScummBot_> Port build status changed with 065dd967: Success: master-mingw-w32, master-openpandora, master-amigaos4, master-debian-x86, master-mingw-w64-cplusplus11, master-webos, master-osx_intel, master-caanoo, master-gp2x, master-dingux, master-debian-x86-clang, master-gcw0, master-gp2xwiz, master-mingw-w64
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[02:09] <snover> phew. just in time for the nightlies to start running.
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[02:25] <snover> this torin invalid selector bug is going to turn out to be either really interesting or incredibly mundane
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[02:28] <snover> what th& f& the pointsoft release of torin has a different 997 vocab?!?
[02:29] <snover> what is this crap&
[02:32] <snover> this is a nightmare.
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[04:08] <snover> https://bugs.scummvm.org/ticket/9864#comment:2 better ideas than my ideas would be very much appreciated here.
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[07:37] <Strangerke|work_> hi guys
[07:38] <criezy> Hi Strangerke|work_
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[09:06] <GitHub18> [scummvm] criezy pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQoCI
[09:06] <GitHub18> scummvm/master 9c7bd1f Paolo Bossi: I18N: Update translation (Italian)...
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[09:06] <GitHub96> [scummvm] criezy pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQoCL
[09:06] <GitHub96> scummvm/master 928f77a Lothar Serra Mari: I18N: Update translation (German)...
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[09:10] <m_kiewitz> logix: do you own a Wii U?
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[09:13] <logix> m_kiewitz: US model (that I haven't used in at least half a year or so now...)
[09:13] <m_kiewitz> ah
[09:13] <logix> so technically the answer is "yes" :)
[09:13] <m_kiewitz> because saturn currently sells Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival for 5 EUR only
[09:13] <m_kiewitz> yes, the game isn't that great, but a few mini games are
[09:14] <m_kiewitz> and it comes with 2 Amiibos
[09:15] <m_kiewitz> i think the amiibos are region free though :p
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[09:49] <GitHub2> [scummvm] criezy pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQo8D
[09:49] <GitHub2> scummvm/master 8384098 Ben Castricum: I18N: Update translation (Dutch)...
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[09:51] <t0by> Simei, criezy, _sev, everyone: I'm sorry, what's your take on https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/pull/926#discussion_r123874369 ?
[09:51] <t0by> I really dislike --massadd as a switch
[09:51] <t0by> Nitpicking, but...
[09:53] Action: t0by is evil *and* a nitpicker
[09:54] <criezy|Work> So you want to have --add --all inseatd of --massadd?
[09:54] <criezy|Work> I am actually wondering if there is a need for a non-mass add...
[09:56] <criezy|Work> If the directory you pass contains only one game then add and massadd would behave in the same way, and if there are several games add will add one of them (choosing in a non-obvious way which one), so its usefullness is dubious to me.
[09:56] <t0by> Wait, let me...
[09:56] <t0by> I admit I did not look at the semantics, I was just irked by the switch name
[09:57] <t0by> https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/pull/926/files/54593b7ef0ed98fb6b58e00178349e5c61963562#diff-ad2287733d7e5cb5fda2b2dd2d5a66abR882
[09:57] <t0by> Eh.
[09:58] <t0by> Does not seem super intuitive.
[09:58] <criezy|Work> Oh I see, it actually asks which one to add... (I clearly did not remember correctly how it behave :P)
[09:58] <t0by> Does it?
[09:58] <t0by> Argh.
[09:59] <criezy|Work> printf("Several games are detected. Please pick one game to add: \n");
[09:59] <t0by> I don't know how I feel about having interaction
[09:59] <t0by> I mean, if you want interaction... you'd use the GUI, right?
[10:00] <criezy|Work> I now remember what I had in mind when I initially saw your comment on the PR:
[10:00] <criezy|Work> By default no interaction and have --add behave like the current --massadd
[10:00] <t0by> I don't know how I feel about having interaction just for *this specific* use case, especially since the idea is to do things in batch.
[10:01] <t0by> I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, but... you'd have to explain this to me.
[10:01] <criezy|Work> Add a -i or --interactive flag that ask the question of which one to add, which an option to add all of them.
[10:01] <t0by> Sounds like a reasonable compromise.
[10:01] <t0by> Is it at all possible that a single file can contain multiple games?
[10:02] <t0by> If not, wouldn't it make slightly more sense to take the filename and/or the game id?
[10:02] <t0by> (On a second thought, the game id)
[10:02] <t0by> (we have --detect already to list those...)
[10:02] <criezy|Work> You can have multiple version of a game with the same directory (for example the choice between DOS and Windows versions for some SCI games)
[10:03] <criezy|Work> And detection usually works on more than one file.
[10:04] <t0by> Hm. Listen, here's my idea: we have --detect on that commit already, so it could work this way: if you really want to interactively choose a game from the available ones you'd cobble together a 3-line bash loop. Otherwise you'd use --detect <directory> to get a list of ids and then --add <directory> <id>?
[10:05] <t0by> And --add <directorywithmultiplegames> would error out with "Multiple games detected: {{ list of ids...}} please pick one with --add <<directory>> <<id>>"?
[10:05] <t0by> Or rather, add all.
[10:05] <t0by> Disregard that last line.
[10:05] <criezy|Work> Disregard which one? "add all" or "error out"?
[10:06] <t0by> Just add all with --add <directorywithmultiplegames> and use --add <directorywithmultiplegames> <id> to add a isingle one?
[10:06] <criezy|Work> That would work, yes.
[10:06] <t0by> And --detect <directory> to get the ids.
[10:07] <t0by> Thoughts?
[10:09] <criezy|Work> I think it might be a bit difficult to implement with the way the command line is currently parsed though... That would need some changes.
[10:09] <criezy|Work> If I remember correctly, when you use a --add or similar command, only things passed before it have been processed by the time it executes the commands. So it would not know that an id has been passed after it.
[10:09] <criezy|Work> Otherwise the idea makes sense to me.
[10:10] <criezy|Work> By the way currently you have to pass the directory with -p <directory> BEFORE the --add.
[10:10] <t0by> well, -p <directory> -id <optionalid> --add ?
[10:11] <criezy|Work> Yes, that would be relatively easy to implement.
[10:11] <criezy|Work> But I find the current semantic to be a bit confusing mixing commands and arguments.
[10:12] <criezy|Work> So I am wondering if we might not want to change that as well...
[10:12] <t0by> Eh, I confess I never was particularly bothered by it
[10:13] <t0by> (I can't remember arguments anyway, I $ command -h all the time for everything)
[10:13] <t0by> But... baby steps?
[10:15] <criezy|Work> Yes, that is fine with me.
[10:15] <t0by> criezy|Work: thanks
[10:15] <criezy|Work> But probably --id rather than -id.
[10:17] <t0by> Right
[10:17] <t0by> I've TL;DR'd this here: https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/pull/926/files/54593b7ef0ed98fb6b58e00178349e5c61963562#r126115251
[10:17] <t0by> Simei, _sev, everybody, if you have a second I'd like to hear your take as well
[10:18] <t0by> s/if/when/
[10:18] <t0by> Very helpful as always.
[10:18] <t0by> Thanks
[10:18] <t0by> criezy|Work: thanks for your feedback
[10:23] <t0by> Off topic but I know some nerds like me will care about it: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20170629IPR78633/making-consumer-products-more-durable-and-easier-to-repair
[10:23] <t0by> m_kiewitz, you're welcome.
[10:26] <m_kiewitz> t0by: typically EU. They ban light bulbs, because why not. But those are just "recommendations"
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[12:10] <Simei> Hi, I didn't see the messages just now. Sorry
[12:10] <Simei> t0by:
[12:11] <Simei> t0by, criezy, _sev, If I understand well, we'll use --add in the place of --massadd
[12:11] <Simei> and add a --game option for it ?
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[12:50] <t0by> Sorry, I'm here
[12:53] <t0by> Simei: that's the gist of it, yes, see my latest comment
[12:54] <t0by> Simei: of course you are in no way obliged to do that yourself unless you feel like it, especially if you have Sludge work to do; I'll gladly change it myself this Sunday if everyone likes it.
[12:54] <t0by> Likes the idea, that is.
[13:01] <Simei> Ok, I think this idea is good.
[13:03] <t0by> I have planned for Sunday to be ScummVM day; I'll try to chase WindlePoons' thing and then have a go at this if that's okay with you guys.
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[13:29] <GitHub31> [scummvm] criezy pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQoPz
[13:29] <GitHub31> scummvm/master dc913a3 Timo Mikkolainen: I18N: Update translation (Finnish)...
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[14:42] <t0by> I'm sorry, English speakers, what pair of words would you use in lieu of "game" to distinguish *a* game of chess from *the* game of chess?
[14:43] <t0by> In Italian we say, respectively, una partita di scacchi vs. il gioco degli scacchi
[14:43] <t0by> Particularly, how would you name a class that describes game logic vs a class that represents an ongoing game?
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[14:49] <criezy|Work> Maybe 'match' for a game (a chess match = una partita di scacchi = une partie d'echec)?
[14:50] <Henke37> session perhaps?
[14:51] <criezy|Work> Maybe GameLogic and GameState?
[14:58] <t0by> criezy|Work, "match", great
[14:58] <t0by> thanks
[14:59] <t0by> but... what if... it's a graphical adventure? :P
[14:59] <t0by> ("match" actually works for me right now, luckily)
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[16:21] <logix> t0by: so in italian you say "una partita di monkey island"?
[16:22] <logix> or rather you *can* say that, as in it's a normal expression in the right context
[16:22] <t0by> Hm.
[16:23] <t0by> IIRC the menu does say "Salva partita", but "una partita di monkey island" does sound borderline weird.
[16:23] <t0by> "Una partita di Quake" is completely acceptable.
[16:25] <t0by> It's interesting, you are making me notice that we say "partita" for things that have a certain uniqueness to them.
[16:25] <t0by> As opposed to some specific point in a Dragon's Lair interactive movie.
[16:26] <t0by> "Salva Posizione", as in "Save current position" is probably appropriate for a Dragon's Lair style thing.
[16:26] <wjp> that sounds very similar to the dutch 'partij' interestingly
[16:30] <logix> in german you use "partie" for things like chess, but not monkey island or quake
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[16:34] <t0by> In fact, I think a good rule of thumb is in fact that if each partita is different, then you can indeed say partita.
[16:35] <t0by> wjp, partij means "[a] game [of]" as well?
[16:37] <wjp> For, say, competitive games yes. (Chess, football, _maybe_ pvp quake)
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[16:45] <wjp> so "match" is probably quite a good translation
[16:46] <snover> i thought the correct translation is thunderdome
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[16:49] <t0by> Yes, we also say "una partita di flipper", which is clearly not PvP but each game is unique.
[16:50] <t0by> It's funny how many things you can discover about the dsemantics of your own language by reasoning about it for a second.
[16:50] <t0by> unless your language is PHP.
[16:50] <t0by> In that case you're out of luck.
[16:52] <logix> I think it works with flipper and football too in german but I'm actually not 100% sure
[16:54] <logix> it might work with more strategic games like starcraft, but for games like quake I think you'd usually say "eine runde quake" (a round of quake)
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[17:39] <GitHub89> [scummvm] bgK pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQKqF
[17:39] <GitHub89> scummvm/master 93c75a4 Bastien Bouclet: MOHAWK: Fix computing the size of tMOV resources...
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[17:41] <logix> I'd say you use it for games that are in some sense "serious" (i.e., not just *random* kicking/throwing of a ball) and it needs to be strategic and not based on randomness/luck, and the in some cases the use probably depends on your personal point of view
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[17:42] <logix> like I'd say the use is mostly universal with chess, but probably not universal with football
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[17:43] <logix> actually, given what I wrote I'm not really sure why flipper would fall into that category... but other examples are billard and poker, those are usually seen as skill/strategy based, not luck based
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[17:46] <GitHub124> [scummvm] bgK pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQKmb
[17:46] <GitHub124> scummvm/master a9a3089 Bastien Bouclet: MOHAWK: Fix tMOV size computation not to use uninitialized memory
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[17:52] <snover> hm. sending `MDT_MIDI | MDT_PREFER_GM` to MidiDriver::detectDevice without having a gm_device specified in ConfMan gets it stuck in an infinite loop as `type` becomes MT_NULL
[17:52] <snover> if i fix that by moving the flag clearing code then it ends up returning an invalid device
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[18:21] <snover> i guess it doesnt matter at the moment since MDT_MIDI is equivalent to MDT_MIDI|MDT_PREFER_GM
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[18:34] <GitHub60> [scummvm] csnover pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/vQKcz
[18:34] <GitHub60> scummvm/master f6dd8ad Colin Snover: SCI: Fix audio_list debug command engine version info
[18:34] <GitHub60> scummvm/master 90cd56e Colin Snover: SCI32: Fix missing music in MGDX...
[18:34] <GitHub60> scummvm/master 07d6ffd Colin Snover: SCI32: Force General MIDI for games that support nothing else...
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[19:34] <criezy> Who is using Visual Studio?
[19:34] <criezy> Strangerke and dreammaster I think, but neither of them are here currently. Anybody else?
[19:34] <criezy> I would appreciate if somebody could check that PR 967 works with VS.
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[20:18] <t0by> criezy, ok
[20:18] <t0by> criezy, can you wait an hour or so?
[20:19] <t0by> (I'll take "no" as an answer if it's blocking you)
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[20:42] <t0by> criezy: https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/pull/926#discussion_r126222004
[20:42] <t0by> thanks
[20:42] <t0by> I brainfarted
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[21:32] <criezy> t0by: I was away for dinner, so waiting one hour or so was wait I ended up doing without knowing.
[21:32] <criezy> But I can wait more than that. It's not blocking me.
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[22:22] <t0by> As soon as this awful thing I'm working on decides to compile I'll reboot on Windows and test it for you
[22:24] <t0by> (s/compile/pass tests/)
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[22:59] <t0by> Sorry, I'm calling it a night, I'll have a go at it first thing in the morning.
[22:59] <t0by> Pinky swear.
[22:59] <snover> so many promises
[23:02] <t0by> It *is* 1am here :|
[23:03] <snover> are you sure? i am looking at my clock and it does not say 1am
[23:03] <t0by> y-you tyrant
[23:03] <t0by> your clock is broken, serves you fine.
[23:03] <criezy> My clock doesn't say 1am either :P
[23:04] Action: t0by throws dead chicken
[23:04] <t0by> good night
[23:05] <t0by> *yawn&
[23:05] <criezy> good night
[23:05] <t0by> oh, I forgot
[23:05] Action: t0by throws some herbs for cooking the chicken
[23:13] Action: dreammaster adds some starling puret
[23:25] <snover> remember the pistachios
[23:32] <snover> m_kiewitz and wjp, if you guys have any thought about https://bugs.scummvm.org/ticket/9864, i would be interested.
[23:33] <snover> (see comment 2)
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[23:44] <GitHub86> [scummvm] criezy pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQKA0
[23:44] <GitHub86> scummvm/master 6f5ccb8 Thierry Crozat: SWORD1: Add thumbnail when saving from game panel...
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[23:44] <GitHub115> [scummvm] criezy pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQKAr
[23:44] <GitHub115> scummvm/master 8d7f016 Thierry Crozat: I18N: Update translations templates
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[23:46] <m_kiewitz> snover: what's inside TORINPAT?
[23:47] <snover> some replacement scripts that fix bugs, http://sierrahelp.com/Files/Patches/TorinsUpdate(TORINPAT).zip
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[23:49] <dreammaster> criezy: Verified that pull request 967 compiles on Visual Studio 2015 at least
[23:49] <snover> e.g. https://bugs.scummvm.org/ticket/9776. which is weird/interesting because theirs was also a PointSoft release, but one which came with patches. So I dont know if it uses the Sierra vocab or the PointSoft vocab from the French release.
[23:49] <criezy> dreammaster: thank you
[23:50] <dreammaster> no prob
[00:00] --- Sat Jul 8 2017