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[03:07] <GitHub75> [scummvm] Joefish opened pull request #1109: AUDIO: Fixes Protracker Portamento effect (master...protracker_porta) https://git.io/vNIZd
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[06:16] <linux_dr> is there a seperate ScummVM dev channel, or is this it?
[06:23] <linux_dr> is anyone awake in here?
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[06:28] <linux_dr> ruskie, hi
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[06:31] <linux_dr> got it... all souls asleep... good night all.
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[06:40] <linux_dr> If anyone happens to see this: Is there any reason why non-adventure games in ScummVM won't work. I know Reflexive's Velocity engine runs several arcade style games, and even a 3rd person shooter and a SPECIAL based RPG... all very data driven. (Star Trek: Away Team was billed as a real-time strategy game, but in reality it was more of an adventure game.)
[06:41] <linux_dr> I may be interested in working on a Velocity engine for ScummVM, but I'm concerned that no work I do would be sufficiently cleanroom.
[06:42] <linux_dr> I have no source code, but have pretty deep knowledge of how the games worked.
[06:42] #scummvm: mode change '+o eriktorbjorn' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[06:43] <linux_dr> anyway... I guess I should stop talking to myself now. :-|
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[06:43] <waltervn> morning
[06:43] <linux_dr> oh... someone there.. hi
[06:44] <linux_dr> any info if there are technical reasons non-adventure games are a bad fit for ScummVM?
[06:46] <bgK> these days ScummVM has expanded its scope to RPG games as well
[06:47] <linux_dr> I know the games I worked most deeply on were a shooter and a classic arcade game.
[06:47] <linux_dr> classic retro-esque arcade
[06:49] <linux_dr> while I might do some engine coding out of curiosity, I doubt releasing what I create would be a good idea without the blessing of the company (now an Amazon subsidiary).
[06:49] <bgK> I'm not sure about those genres, but I guess if you are interested to work on an engine and are unsure about scope it's best to send a mail to the mailing list so there can be a discussion
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[06:50] <linux_dr> I doubt my contributions on a Velocity engine would be a good idea without a specific blessing from Amazon.
[06:51] <linux_dr> (and they are NOT a former employer of mine... they bought the company 5+ years after I left.)
[06:54] <linux_dr> I could give technical details and assistance, I'm sure. but I would avoid coding, at least until I get someone's blessing. (also, three of the games are owned by separate publishers: Activision, JoWood and Interplay... and even if I could work on the other games, the publishers might want their say.)
[06:55] <linux_dr> I'd really like to help someone get the games to run... but I don't expect it to happen... but I'm wondering if ScummVM would be the right vehicle at least.
[06:55] <bgK> ScummVM devs often do not have any contact / blessing with the companies originally involved with the games. A lot of the engines in ScummVM were directly reverse engineered (not clean room)
[06:56] <linux_dr> bgK: of course... that's why I wouldn't expect to code (at least on an engine I've worked on professionally)... I wouldn't expect any blessing... was just indicating that I thought it was quite unlikely to be forthcoming.
[06:58] <linux_dr> sigh... I guess I'm just pining from my "glory days" of being a game developer. :-(
[06:59] <linux_dr> They were a lot of fun to create. I just miss that. And I was really proud of the engine we had built (even thought I was only a small contributor.)
[07:01] <linux_dr> I expect at least Star Trek Away Team could be ported to ScummVM with enough effort.. it's enough of an adventure game... not sure about our shooter ("Zax"), our breakout and asteroids clones (Ricochet and Swarm) or the RPG mostly done after I left (Lionheart).
[07:04] <linux_dr> sigh... but like I said... I'm pining about theoreticals, unless someone wants to pick my brain to do a clean-room implementation.
[07:06] <linux_dr> Hmm... here's one interesting thing... Ricochet was freely downloadable demo with the full commercial game data included to be unlocked via credit card purchase. I expect the game is still legally downloadable from somewhere.
[07:07] <linux_dr> while I don't condone piracy, I don't think this really qualifies.
[07:09] <linux_dr> but IaNaL.... Ok... thanks for being patient while I flapped my gumms about nonsense. I really like ScummVM and appreciate all of your hard work.
[07:11] <linux_dr> \msg bgK Thanks for listening.
[07:14] <bgK> linux_dr: there's usually more people around at Europe evening time, if you want to discuss the Reflexive games more
[07:14] <bgK> or you could drop a mail to our -devel mailing list
[07:16] <linux_dr> I'm happy to share my knowledge, time permitting. Do you think having the Ricochet game data legally obtainable might be a bit of an incentive?
[07:18] <linux_dr> I will say that the games like Ricochet and Swarm used a much less advanced gaming system than the 3 isometrics I mentioned. Ricochet could be a great first step, but that might get anyone only 20% to run any of the isometrics.
[07:19] <linux_dr> When Reflexive press releases discussed the "Velocity engine", I believe the isometric engine is what they were referring to, even though a large amount of code was common.
[07:29] <linux_dr> bgK: I appreciate the heads up... I will look into more active participation (via this channel or the mailing list) when I have a bit more bandwidth to devote... Right now I'm stretched pretty thin. :-/
[07:36] <_sev> hi linux_dr
[07:36] <linux_dr> _sev: hi
[07:37] <_sev> normally we are not seeking blessings, as what we do is legal, and even non-clean-room RE is fully legal in most parts of the world
[07:37] <_sev> we make sure we are not involved in the illegal game data distribution aka piracy
[07:38] <_sev> and as a side effect, the original IP rights owners even thanked us later after finding out the support, as they could start selling the games via Steam or GOG.com
[07:39] <_sev> in some cases we were given the sources and worked jointly with the authors and/or the IP rights owners
[07:39] <linux_dr> of course... but as I'm a former developer, if I contributed code, someone could claim that I had previous access to the original code, and was disseminating trade secrets.
[07:39] <_sev> as of the engine itself, the focus is on Adventure/RPG, but once that is done and if the engine supports non-adventures, that is fine
[07:40] <_sev> heh, trade secrets in the source code are not existent
[07:40] <_sev> and if they do, they must be patented
[07:40] <_sev> otherwise, RE is allowed "for increasing compatibility"
[07:41] <linux_dr> _sev: I will say Star Trek: Away Team is an adventure game... even though it was billed as "real time strategy"
[07:41] <_sev> but of course, it is your personal safety and your decision, especially since you're apparently US-based
[07:41] <logix> the situation of a freely downloadable game with a usable "demo version" and the "full version" being unlockable via payment is kind of interesting
[07:41] <_sev> we are careful with those
[07:42] <_sev> as normally this is engine-based locking, and ScummVM normally does not have that piece, so the game works as full one
[07:42] <linux_dr> logix, agreed... I think that would be a pretty cool place to start... we first need to find a current place to download the demo version, though
[07:42] <linux_dr> _sev: exactly..
[07:44] <linux_dr> _sev: nothing I could contribute would be in any way illegal, *BUT* if, as I've worked on the original games, I could be civilly sued for breach of contract given I signed a NDA as part of my employment.
[07:44] <_sev> NDAs also usually have an expiration date
[07:45] <_sev> but yes, IANAL, so it is better to ignore me in these questions :D
[07:46] <linux_dr> _sev: perhaps... but I would prefer not to risk it... My only reason for mentioning the original owner's blessing, was to grant *ME* an exception from the NDA.
[07:46] <linux_dr> ... *OR* to encourage them to release the source.
[07:47] <_sev> then try to find the leads and talk to people, you may always ask me for help, I have some experience with those kinds of negotiations
[07:49] <linux_dr> I would think the interplay title would be the best place to start, but I have no idea who owns them now... (The interplay title was the last game *I* was involved in, and I suspect most of the code would be backwards compatible to the other games I mentioned. I am unsure about the code lineage of more recent games.)
[07:50] <linux_dr> They had some really innovative technology that would only really be helpful if the code was released.
[07:51] <linux_dr> including a really cool game editing system.
[07:53] <_sev> :)
[07:53] <_sev> ok, ttyl. feel free to drop me an e-mail
[07:54] <linux_dr> One issue that plagues their games on current hardware would be really easily solved with the source code (even without ScummVM)... They used a back-buffering trick that relied on getting off-screen buffers in round-robin order... and updating only dirty parts of the frame.... on modern hardware this is emulated, and leads to ghosting.
[07:54] <_sev> we widely using dirty rectangle updates
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[07:56] <linux_dr> _sev, Yes... but they did it for multiple frames.... so if something was redrawn in the last frame, but not 2 frames ago, it would not be redrawn properly
[07:56] <linux_dr> _sev: when I can, I will... Does the Ricochet download with full game data interest you?
[07:58] <linux_dr> from a web search (the company's website was taken down long ago) can be gotten here: http://www.bullseyesgames.com/downloadgames/Ricochet_Xtreme/index.shtml
[07:59] <linux_dr> (I can't say it hasn't been tampered with, but I suspect it's ok)
[08:01] <linux_dr> I was involved in the original "Ricochet: Xtreme", not the sequels Ricochet: Lost Worlds, Recharged or Infinity
[08:11] <linux_dr> I may be mistaken, but I might have found the original, legitimate download on the wayback machine. (They usually don't archive downloads) This is what I found: https://web.archive.org/web/20021215040522/http://www.reflexive.net/Demos/RicochetSetup.exe
[08:13] <linux_dr> Yes... that indeed looks legitimate.
[08:14] <linux_dr> _sev, I will touch base in the future, but I'm calling it a night for now.
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[08:30] <logix> linux_dr: cool, I also thought of checking out archive.org
[08:30] <logix> oops
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[09:00] <Strangerke|work> hi guys
[09:00] <Strangerke|work> http://www.hostingadvice.com/blog/scummvm-lets-you-play-classic-90s-computer-games-on-modern-devices/
[09:04] <logix> that's some solid hosting advice there
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[09:14] <edheldil_> too bad linux_dr already left
[09:14] <edheldil_> I really enjoyed playing Lionheart
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[09:22] <edheldil_> btw, If anyone's interested in Velocity engine, I put some of my research here: http://lionheart.eowyn.cz/doku.php
[09:23] <edheldil_> I have also some tools unreleased for the lack of time
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[13:59] <Joefish> !seen criezy
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[19:31] <chaosinjapan> hi!
[19:32] <chaosinjapan> anybody there?
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[19:33] <chaosinjapan> does anyone know if there will be a ScummVM version for iOS 11? One that uses the iPhone X complete screen?
[19:38] <chaosinjapan> guess I'm out of luck
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[19:42] <logix> I can't give you a definitive "yes", but if there's no reason against it then I suppose there will be "some time soon"
[19:44] <chaosinjapan> awesome. That's enough for me. I guess it's a matter of waiting for the 11.1.2 jailbreak
[19:45] <chaosinjapan> I wish there was at least a way to pick the 1.9.0 version in IPA form, and not in .deb
[19:45] <chaosinjapan> oh well
[19:45] <chaosinjapan> Thank you very much logix
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[21:01] <tsoliman> eriktorbjorn: I found the source commit for the Presto fork of ScummVM for Pegasus Prime 1.0.1 .. it is d04667e5 .. see https://github.com/tsoliman/scummvm/commit/f0fa862d632bc9b5ac2b12b016c940da0f653907 for what it would have looked like in github ... for posterity ... and in case there's any interest in supporting the Presto gamedata
[21:04] <tsoliman> also ... I am an idiot ... dists/pegasus/debian/README.source clearly says d04667e58a889e4744f36fb5797a69fa437a1abf :(
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[00:00] --- Tue Jan 9 2018