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[00:22] <tsoliman> bgK: I didn't realize (or maybe forgot?) that you were working on the Presto Pegasus :) how is it going?
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[06:41] <waltervn> morning
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[07:43] <bgK> tsoliman: I rebased the GOG.com patch onto modern ScummVM in this branch: https://github.com/bgK/scummvm/tree/pegasus-dvd. Some of the fixes I did to Pegasus for version 2.0.0 had some impact in the new DVD code. Those changes are in there as well. But that's about it.
[07:44] <bgK> Next steps are checking the other versions of the game still work and getting permission to merge from the authors.
[07:44] <bgK> Help is welcome
[07:49] <_sev> In fact, in this particular case, it is precisely why we use GPL
[07:49] <_sev> with the proper credits you can just use the code from Keith Kaisershot
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[07:50] <bgK> I don't want this to end up with drama like the buried engine
[07:51] <_sev> look, here is a HUGE difference
[07:52] <_sev> in this case the work has been published, and if they do not allow us to reuse the code with proper credits, this is a clear violation of our license
[07:52] <_sev> buried engine was all new code and never published in a product
[07:53] <_sev> of course, it is very nce to inform the author
[07:54] <_sev> but they cannot prohibit
[07:54] <_sev> code reuse
[07:54] <_sev> or we are not GPL
[07:54] <bgK> I tried mailing Keith already but did not get an answer. I'll try again.
[08:02] <_sev> and besides
[08:03] <_sev> yesterday we had a beer with wjp, and buried wa one of the topics. I will try to contact clone again
[08:06] <bgK> it would be nice to have it in
[08:06] <bgK> IIRC it's in a slightly more rough shape, with some bugs to be fixed
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[17:30] <rsn8887> I am (again) confused: What is the difference between g_system->getFeatureState(OSystem::kFeatureAspectCorrection) and ConfMan("aspect_ratio") and why are there two ways to read this setting?
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[17:36] <wjp> what do you mean, two ways?
[17:36] <wjp> one is the current situation, and the other is the config setting
[17:38] <wjp> if you switch aspect ratio correction on/off with the hotkey, the config setting isn't affected
[17:39] <wjp> (I don't know if all backends support this switching)
[17:44] <wjp> although it seems my knowledge about this is a bit out of date with the new desired_screen_aspect_ratio
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[17:48] <rsn8887> so the correct way of checking whether to apply aspect correction before drawing the screen is g_system->getFeatureState(OSystem::kFeatureAspectCorrection)
[17:50] <rsn8887> but in sdl-graphics.cpp, ConfMan.getBool("aspect_ratio") is used to check whether to perform aspect correction or not.
[17:50] <snover> i would refer you back to http://lists.scummvm.org/pipermail/scummvm-devel/2017-October/012003.html
[17:53] <rsn8887> Ok aspect correction is a bad example, because it is undergoing changes. What about the filtering option? I have the same question there. What is the correct way of determining whether I should apply linear filtering or not before drawing the screen. Should I use ConfMan.getBool("filtering") or g_system->getFeatureState(OSystem::kFeatureFilteringMode)
[17:53] <rsn8887> I just want to do these things correctly.
[17:54] <wjp> same thing. One is the config option, the other the current run-time state
[17:55] <rsn8887> ok so the getFeatureState is the correct way then. So the only reason why getFeatureState exists is to allow hotkeys to change settings on-the-fly without changing config.
[17:56] <rsn8887> Since ConfMan.getxxx is used for the other config settings that don't have hotkeys. This makes sense. Thanks.
[17:56] <snover> if you are already in the graphics manager dont call through g_system, thats redundant
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[18:19] <omer_mor> hi sci experts! I'd like to take a look at https://bugs.scummvm.org/ticket/10295 but I'm some trouble
[18:19] <omer_mor> I'm having*
[18:20] <wjp> ah
[18:20] <wjp> I should probably make myself the owner of that ticket
[18:20] <omer_mor> the problem is with the palette used in room 904 at night time
[18:21] <wjp> PalVary should be turned off when opening the charsheet
[18:21] <wjp> but this is something that the current script patcher can't really accomodate, since it needs too large changes
[18:21] <omer_mor> the embedded palette for this room is mostly brown shades
[18:21] <wjp> I have a half-finished approach to this
[18:22] <wjp> turning off PalVary is what the Mac version does, by the way
[18:22] <omer_mor> and most of the brown pixels in the picture are from the range 72-255
[18:23] <omer_mor> but some stray pixels are using brown colors from the range 54-71 which is changed during nighttime
[18:23] <wjp> yes
[18:24] <omer_mor> the pinkish palette is palette 904
[18:24] <omer_mor> purplish*
[18:25] <omer_mor> I guess by default the room will use a palette with the same # as the pic?
[18:25] <wjp> I'd have to look at what exactly the night-time PalVary does
[18:25] <omer_mor> The Italian translation patch fixed this issue by changing the picture itself
[18:25] <wjp> yes
[18:26] <wjp> but that still leaves things like the "You're getting tired" dialog on that screen broken
[18:26] <omer_mor> it replaced the brown pixels from the range 54-71 to pixels from the range 72-255
[18:26] <omer_mor> right
[18:26] <omer_mor> I'd like to know how the mac version fixed this
[18:26] <wjp> I just said
[18:26] <wjp> it turns off PalVary when opening the charsheet
[18:26] <omer_mor> oh, missed this :)
[18:26] <wjp> and then re-enables it when closing it
[18:27] <omer_mor> how did you analyse the mac version?
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[18:27] <omer_mor> sci companion and sv.exe does not support it
[18:27] <wjp> just scummvm's internal disassembler
[18:28] <omer_mor> and dumping resources from scummvm dumps them in an incompatible format (I guess different endianness)
[18:28] <omer_mor> the disassembler is good for scripts, but what about pics? palettes?
[18:29] <wjp> I only looked at the scripts here
[18:30] <wjp> it disables PalVary conditionally on some global
[18:30] <wjp> and when enabling it again takes the palette from some property of the game object IIRC
[18:31] <omer_mor> the charsheet script (204) does that?
[18:31] <wjp> yes
[18:32] <omer_mor> Is it possible to dump the script from the mac version to a dos-compatible format? which scicompanion would be able to read?
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[18:55] <rsn8887> I think PR100 https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/pull/1100 is ready to merge. It fixes lipsync in Dott, nothing else.
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[19:06] <GitHub178> [scummvm] rsn8887 opened pull request #1110: PSP2: remove code duplication in psp2 graphicsmanager (master...psp2dedup) https://git.io/vNqSh
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[21:48] <linux_dr> _sev, I don't have a lot of time to devote now, but thought I would stop back by now that it's an earlier hour.
[21:48] <_sev> how can I help?
[21:50] <linux_dr> Just that it sounded like someone might be interested in talking about an engine with a legally free download available.
[21:50] <linux_dr> I'd like to help, but I'm concerned if I was actually coding, I might run afoul of an NDA
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[21:55] <linux_dr> _sev, you mentioned I stop by in the evening European time, sometime to see if anyone had any... well maybe not interest, so much as curiosity
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[22:02] <linux_dr> I know of 18 distinct games (23 including sequels) that very likely use some version of this engine, and I personally worked on 5 of them, and have a reasonable understanding of much of how they function.
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[22:06] <linux_dr_2> so, not suggesting anyone start work on the engine in question, but if there is interest in doing so, I'm happy to offer some help.
[22:07] <wjp> Which engine is this?
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[22:09] <linux_dr_3> sorry about that... my wifi driver was reinstalling.
[22:09] <wjp> 23:06 <@wjp> Which engine is this?
[22:09] <linux_dr_3> Reflexive Entertainment's "Velocity Engine"...
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[22:10] <linux_dr_3> I can't claim it would be a small job, but I think it would be interesting.
[22:10] Nick change: linux_dr_3 -> linux_dr
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[22:13] <linux_dr> Of the games I'm aware of for the engine, I'm only aware of 3 that could be classed as adventure or RPG, and the freely downloadable one isn't one of them... so it's really a long shot, but thought I'd ask.
[22:14] <wjp> Which games?
[22:15] <wjp> Hm, from the list of Reflexive Entertainment games on wikipedia I think I only know Lionheart
[22:15] <linux_dr> Also, I wouldn't say I'm unwilling to contribute code... but I'm concerned if I was the primary developer, it would smell of NDA violation... the company was purchased Amazon over 8 years ago, and I've been gone over 15 years.
[22:16] <linux_dr> I worked most on Zax, but contributed significantly to Ricochet and STAT
[22:16] <linux_dr> aka Star Trek Away Team
[22:17] <linux_dr> Zax is a shooter, but could also be seen as an adventure game... STAT was *MARKETED* as a "realtime strategy" but that one was DEFINITELY an adventure game.... Lionheart was RPG all the way.
[22:18] <tsoliman> linux_dr: do you still have a copy of the NDA? usually they expire
[22:18] <linux_dr> tsoliman, I don't believe I do.
[22:20] <linux_dr> honestly, I'd love someone to convince Amazon (and/or JoWood/Interplay/Activision) to release the source, but I don't expect to see that happen.
[22:22] <tsoliman> zax is odd ... I've never seen it before ... it instantly reminds me of Albion
[22:23] <linux_dr> The source includes a very cool editor that I was very impressed with.
[22:24] <linux_dr> haven't heard of Albion... I will say Zax was originally a Hasbro title, before they jettisoned their game-development division.
[22:24] <tsoliman> I really wish Albion were all overhead (the 3D didn't age well at all)
[22:26] <tsoliman> Albion was an RPG from 1995 that I only found out about a few years ago
[22:26] <linux_dr> I'm sure a full asset dump is way too much to hope for, but all of the Reflexive isometric games used assets all modeled in 3DS Max, and rendered into PNG stills before being converted into game asset format.
[22:26] <tsoliman> it has point and click parts (and dialogue trees and such) .. and some horrible 3D bits
[22:27] <Dark-Star> Lionheart looks more like Infinity Engine to me (although I think I remember from an ancient discussion on #gemrb that it really isn't...)
[22:27] <linux_dr> Reflexive has a fully graphical object oriented scripting language
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[22:28] <linux_dr> I'm not familiar with Infinity engine.
[22:28] <tsoliman> Baldur's Gate on the PC used it
[22:28] <wjp> That's Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape: Torment
[22:28] <linux_dr> ok
[22:28] <tsoliman> Baldur's Gate on the console is unrelated
[22:28] <linux_dr> Yes... Velocity engine was really its own animal...
[22:29] <Dark-Star> yeah, I remember people coming to #gemrb to pester the devs into looking at Lionheart, even though they all said they didn't have that game... it sounded like someone trying to deliberately push people into downloading it and then going after them, but that was just my impression :)
[22:31] <linux_dr> *IF* someone has a copy of Lionheart, I think that might be the best way forward, as far as bang for the buck in development time... to my knowledge it was the newest of the isometric games they made, and most of the stuff in Zax and STAT should probably work from it without much tweeking.
[22:32] <linux_dr> $9-12 USD from ebay: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=lionheart&_osacat=0&ssPageName=GSTL&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xlionheart+interplay.TRS0&_nkw=lionheart+interplay&_sacat=0
[22:33] <Dark-Star> it's on GOG for 10$ too
[22:33] <linux_dr> cool... isn't GOG DRM-free?
[22:33] <Dark-Star> yup
[22:34] <linux_dr> I wonder if they have Zax and STAT... my commercial versions still are locked to physical CDs. :-/
[22:35] <linux_dr> (nope and nope)
[22:35] <wjp> If their developer metadata is correct, gog only have Lionheart from Reflexive
[22:35] <wjp> ( https://www.gog.com/games?devpub=reflexive_entertainment&sort=popularity&page=1 )
[22:36] <tsoliman> I am happy the field is devpub - I am less happy that their metadata often sucks
[22:36] <tsoliman> (sometimes CompanyName and CompanyNameTM are different companies)
[22:37] <linux_dr> I see nothing there besides Lionheart
[22:38] <tsoliman> Steam's is worse .. they have dev and pub as separate search fields .. and the metadata is much worse than GOG
[22:39] <linux_dr> *BUT* I mentioned that Ricochet (which requires a online purchase to unlock, but includes all assets) is still legally downloadable from Wayback Machine.
[22:39] <tsoliman> how would ScummVM know you bought it?
[22:40] <linux_dr> https://web.archive.org/web/20020401235359/http://www.reflexive.net/Demos/RicochetSetup.exe
[22:40] <linux_dr> it wouldn't... it has no reason to enfore DRM content protection.
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[22:41] <tsoliman> Oo
[22:41] <linux_dr> would that make it warez?
[22:42] <Dark-Star> looking at their list on mobygames, I think I've only ever played one game from them... which is funny because the company logo looks quite familiar to me
[22:42] <linux_dr> in fact, the installer was InnoSetup, if you want to extract the files without running the installer.
[22:42] <linux_dr> I liked the company logo, but didn't find it particularly original.
[22:44] <linux_dr> https://github.com/dscharrer/innoextract
[22:44] <wjp> very useful for gog games too, since their Windows installers are also InnoSetup
[22:44] <Strangerke> tsoliman: didn't we have the same issue with laby of time?
[22:44] <Dark-Star> oh wait. I had Ricochet as bundleware with one of my first NVidia graphics cards... just a few days ago I imaged that particular CD :-)
[22:45] <wjp> Strangerke, tsoliman: detecting demo vs non-demo, you mean?
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[22:45] <Strangerke> wjp: yes, the downloadable version was full but limited and registerable, and registering was putting a key in registry or something like that
[22:45] <linux_dr> the company's almost 7 years defunct according to Wikipedia... does that matter at this point?
[22:46] <tsoliman> Strangerke, wjp: how did we detect it?
[22:46] <Strangerke> I think we finally got an authorization to not care about it from the company
[22:46] <linux_dr> I have no right to give you the blessing to move forward on this. you could ask Amazon I suppose... but I don't think it matters.
[22:47] <Strangerke> but I'm not 100% sure, maybe dreammaster will remember
[22:47] <wjp> ITE also had a trial with full assets
[22:47] <Dark-Star> a defunct company doesn't mean the copyright is gone... it just means that it's getting harder and harder to track down.
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[22:47] <Strangerke> linux_dr: I'll pay you a beer if you get an answer :)
[22:47] <wjp> but this is a bit of a side-track
[22:47] <wjp> (at least, I _think_ it was ITE?)
[22:47] <Strangerke> Dark-Star: oh so true!
[22:48] <linux_dr> Dark-Star, the copyright is INDEED not gone... that isn't the question... They gave away the (copyrighted) data... is USING it a copyright violation.
[22:48] <tsoliman> linux_dr: *sigh* the argument of "abandonware" is not a legal thing .. it is a rationalization for copyright infringement (which is illegal)
[22:48] <tsoliman> linux_dr: they gave it to you under what license?
[22:49] <Dark-Star> sure, if you use it in a way that was never intended, it's a violation. There's probably an EULA in the game installer for that. And even if there's nobody who would go after you, it's (sadly) still illegal... copyright law sucks
[22:49] <tsoliman> yep .. not to mention "derived works" is also covered unless in certain exceptions (e.g. fair use) and those exceptions are defenses not a given
[22:50] <Dark-Star> it's the same with all software that has an "unlock the full version" method... you are allowed to test it, even though the full-featured, unrestricted software is practically in your hands, with often just a 1-byte change in the file to enable it ;-)
[22:50] <linux_dr> They allowed anyone to download the installer... no license... the installer offered a click-through license, and the game engine enforced it...
[22:50] <tsoliman> (US here, no clue about EU laws)
[22:50] <Strangerke> tsoliman: Europe is more tolerant
[22:51] <linux_dr> I think the question is: (according to the DMCA) is reimplementation considered anti-circumvention?
[22:51] <Dark-Star> IIRC, in the EU, EULAs are not enforcible if you don't see them before buying a product, but I don't know how that applies to a product that was free
[22:52] <linux_dr> *I* don't think it's a violation... but that's my IaNaL opinion..
[22:52] <tsoliman> linux_dr: allowing someone to make a copy is not the same as a license (legally) .. analogy: I might leave my door unlocked but if someone opens it and enters the house they are liable for "breaking and entering" even though they "broke" nothing
[22:53] <wjp> let's not get into legal bikeshedding prematurely :-)
[22:54] <linux_dr> I didn't mean to open pandora's box.
[22:54] <Strangerke> As long as we talk about an engine, we should be in the safe zone :)
[22:54] <linux_dr> It seemed pretty straight forward to me.
[22:54] <tsoliman> fair enough .. I suppose if the current rights-holder says "eh, don't worry about it" then we're safe
[22:54] <linux_dr> I'm not the rightsholder.
[22:54] <linux_dr> ask Amazon.
[22:54] <Strangerke> tsoliman: or "yeah, we can sell it again without an effort!"
[22:54] <tsoliman> it's usually a win-win :)
[22:55] <Strangerke> yes
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[22:56] <tsoliman> I am not an expert in these things, but like, don't you have to know someone on the inside to sort of be your champion in these matters?
[22:57] <linux_dr> Dark-Star, what incarnation of Ricochet did you have?
[22:57] <linux_dr> tsoliman, I'm 15 years outside of the inside.
[22:58] <tsoliman> I mean I can make a pretty good guess at what the response will be if one just emails legal@facelesscorporation.com, in fact I am willing to bet they have a template :)
[22:58] <tsoliman> but yeah this is me bikeshedding again :)
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[22:59] <linux_dr> As long as we aren't providing or explicitly pointing anyone at freely available data, are we liable?
[23:00] <linux_dr> IIRC, the isPurchased() mechanism was simply a gameplay timer... user get's a free hour with occasional 5 minute freebies... however far they get in that time is up to them.
[23:01] <Dark-Star> linux_dr: I don't know, actually, I think I misremembered the name for something similar :-)
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[23:02] <linux_dr> The first version was Ricochet Xtreme (actually "Ricochet" was the demo version, "Ricochet Xtreme" was after it was purchased.
[23:11] <linux_dr> ahh... look what I just found: the free addons: https://web.archive.org/web/20020407072458fw_/http://www.reflexive.net:80/Ricochet/Game%20Addons.htm ... ANYWAY ... The meat of the Velocity engine isn't in Ricochet, etc... a Lionheart implementation would probably give you 90% of Zax and Away Team... and maybe 50-70% of the other games.
[23:18] <linux_dr> so... anyway.... if there is any interest, I'm happy to share what I know, time permitting...
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[00:00] --- Wed Jan 10 2018