ScummVM IRC Log - 11 May 2017

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[15:05] <Deledrius> gif is gonna be ugly for games with more than 256 colors. :/
[15:06] <wjp> that's not really true
[15:06] <wjp> but let's please not use it anyway
[15:06] <wjp> everything will realistically support libpng
[15:08] <wjp> (the 256 color limitation is per block/unit/what's-it-called, not per image)
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[15:42] <tsoliman> when an engine asks for a file, and that file isn't directly in the game directory, the engine will not find it unless that dir is defined in a SearchMan.addSubDirectoryMatching() call, correct?
[15:43] <tsoliman> the question is .. what if the file is in {gameDataDir}/A/B/ .. is it sufficient to do SearchMan.addSubDirectoryMatching(gameDataDir, "A")?
[15:44] <snover> tsoliman: see optional `depth` parameter to addSubDirectoryMatching
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[16:10] <tsoliman> snover: I guess what is not clear to me is whether it is recursive up to that depth (maxDepth), or whether it is an exact depth .. meaning passing "A" with depth=2 will ignore /A/ but add /A/*/
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[16:11] <tsoliman> I should just debug this :)
[16:14] <snover> im 95% sure it is recursive
[16:19] <tsoliman> the actual case is that GOG distributes a game with the different CDs' content put into separate dirs instead of "merged" into the gamedir .. and I was hoping I can get the games to work "as is" without telling people "hey, after you install the game from GOG, merge these"
[16:38] <m_kiewitz> tsoliman: it depends on what they named those directories
[16:40] <m_kiewitz> tsoliman: ah this wasn't about a specific engine like SCI?
[16:41] <tsoliman> no nothing to do with SCI
[16:41] <m_kiewitz> ah, then yes i guess you just need to add the subdirectories
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[16:43] <WooShell> meow =^.^=
[16:58] <snover> m_kiewitz: have you encountered a game that does localisation in this manner? https://gist.github.com/ADeadTrousers/011bbfba95b9cb56ebd715e262cf0322
[16:59] <snover> (language directories containing msg patches)
[16:59] <m_kiewitz> we had this yesterday
[16:59] <m_kiewitz> i checked my own German version (which is the original sierra release) and it has no patches directory
[16:59] <m_kiewitz> ah language wait
[17:00] <m_kiewitz> yikes
[17:00] <m_kiewitz> yes, my Torin's Passage has the same
[17:00] <m_kiewitz> GERMAN\MSG
[17:00] <m_kiewitz> ENGLISH\MSG
[17:00] <m_kiewitz> FRENCH\MSG
[17:00] <m_kiewitz> and those are required/contain the localized text only?
[17:01] <snover> i assume so, i dont have any non-US releases
[17:01] <m_kiewitz> need to check
[17:01] <snover> so i cant test it myself
[17:01] <m_kiewitz> but we would then have to support english, french + german
[17:01] <m_kiewitz> or maybe detect it as english, french and german
[17:01] <m_kiewitz> what a nightmare
[17:02] <m_kiewitz> for sci16 they never did anything like that
[17:02] <m_kiewitz> sci16 supported english + french/german/spanish etc. at once
[17:02] <snover> i am running with the assumption that there will be new detection table entries with different languages and then subdirectories will be conditionally added SciEngine constructor based on desc->language
[17:03] <m_kiewitz> so text was dual language
[17:03] <m_kiewitz> yes
[17:03] <m_kiewitz> still installing this probably will copy those over
[17:03] <m_kiewitz> so we would have to support both variants :/
[17:03] <snover> im not sure i understand, about the installing
[17:04] <m_kiewitz> I mean in case the user installs it using the sierra installer
[17:04] <snover> i dont think that would work anyway since i dont think the installer will ever copy the audio resources
[17:04] <m_kiewitz> that probably copies over the .msg files
[17:04] <m_kiewitz> yes, but they will probably copy the msg files over to harddrive
[17:05] <snover> the current datafiles rules for sci32 are to copy from the original installation media
[17:05] <m_kiewitz> i will have to check what they are doing in that case
[17:06] <m_kiewitz> this whole thing is probably Torin's Passage only
[17:06] <m_kiewitz> gk2 German seems to be German only
[17:07] <snover> that was another thing i was wondering about, whether this should be conditional on gameid.
[17:07] <m_kiewitz> probably not
[17:07] <m_kiewitz> because it's just message files
[17:07] <m_kiewitz> sure, in theory they may copy one of those strings over
[17:07] <m_kiewitz> and that could cause issues
[17:07] <m_kiewitz> using one gameid would have the advantage to be able to basically switch languages
[17:08] <m_kiewitz> well, it would be quite nice to actually support it in a way that the user can select different languages and then we would switch to the corresponding directory
[17:09] <m_kiewitz> (without re-detection or separate game entries)
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[17:10] <m_kiewitz> snover: oh you are the IE expert, there is a really weird problem at work and it seems we at the very least have figured out that an issue only happens with Internet Explorer 11 :/
[17:11] <m_kiewitz> another developer creates a large HTML table and for IE 11 it takes literally 40-50 seconds (!) to render
[17:11] <m_kiewitz> under other IEs it worked just fine
[17:11] <m_kiewitz> the notebook, that we tested this on, should have the latest updates installed at least in theory
[17:12] <m_kiewitz> i have absolutely no idea what is happening, originally i thought it was the virus scanner, but that doesn't seem to be the case
[17:12] <m_kiewitz> and when i change all text (content) within that HTML table, it renders fast again
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[17:29] <Deledrius> interesting, wjp. I thought it was per-frame, not per-block. I wasn't aware GIF had such a notion.
[17:31] <Deledrius> So it does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIF#True_color
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[17:42] <m_kiewitz> Deledrius: I'm surprised. Didn't know that. But even if I would implement GIF screenshot support, I would have only done so for <=256 color games.
[17:47] <Deledrius> Seems like doing more than 256 adds to the complexity quite a bit, at which point it's probably easier again to just use PNG.
[17:49] <m_kiewitz> yes
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[19:40] <GitHub33> [scummvm-sites] criezy pushed 1 new commit to web-planet: https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm-sites/commit/8fbba10fd5b5d3401d711cd1189280f0750a12a1
[19:40] <GitHub33> scummvm-sites/web-planet 8fbba10 Thierry Crozat: PLANET: Add Joefish blog
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[22:04] <TMM> why implement gif for anything today?
[22:04] <TMM> even 'gifs' on the internet aren't even in gif format any longer
[22:05] <tsoliman> "gifv" :D
[22:06] <Joefish> png will rule the world.. eventually
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[22:06] <TMM> Joefish, I think that battle has been over since ie6 died
[22:07] <tsoliman> TMM: Someone once said it is a pretty straightforward way to practice writing C++ (the result is visual) and also practice REing .. disassembling your gif parser might give insight into how programs look
[22:07] <TMM> tsoliman, ok, fair. But adding it as a screenshot format for scummvm, now? :)
[22:08] <tsoliman> touche
[22:08] <Lightkey> no, sadly then smartphones happened and everything gets compressed to hell in JPEG even if PNG would be smaller for some graphics
[22:09] <t0by> I don't see the connection with smartphones (I don't have one, that might help).
[22:09] <Lightkey> bandwidth?
[22:10] <tsoliman> t0by: ok so the thing that started happening in the last 5 years or so is that people started posting 1080p 30 second 30fps gifs
[22:10] <tsoliman> (that's an exaggeration but not untrue)
[22:11] <tsoliman> the same content can be displayed with a faction of the size with better quality/framerate/etc with say h.264 mp4
[22:11] <Lightkey> I was really surprised when I saw a PNG on Twitter recently, didn't know they even allowed that since up until then I only saw JPEGs there
[22:12] <tsoliman> so websites like imgur and giphy started to serve out actual video files in-place of gifs
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[22:13] <tsoliman> imgur called it "gifv" and went out of its way to prevent you from accessing the "controls"
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[22:15] <tsoliman> "gif" now means "an audioless video that loops" ... :(
[22:16] <Lightkey> ..in gid quality, that is so dumb
[22:16] <Lightkey> gif*
[22:16] <Lightkey> but ease of use trumps all apparently
[22:17] <tsoliman> I mean would you rather have the .5GB gif or a 2MB webm?
[22:17] <logix> middle out ftw
[22:17] <tsoliman> the wikipedia page for APNG doesn't actually animate
[22:18] <Lightkey> I would rather have nothing if people can't be arsed to transcode directly from the source into webm
[22:18] <tsoliman> they do .. sites like giphy and imgur actually take your video file as input
[22:19] <tsoliman> and they do the transcoding to "gif" and to mp4 and such
[22:19] <tsoliman> real gifs too .. giant low-fps monstrosities
[22:19] <TMM> tsoliman, most 'gifs' you see online now *are* h.264 mp4 with a bunch of javascript
[22:20] <Lightkey> sure, that existed before
[22:20] <tsoliman> yeah but those hosting sites have the actual gif format as option as too
[22:20] <tsoliman> it ends up being horrible in comparison to the h.264 mp4
[22:20] <Lightkey> but they also take your gif that you found on those sites and transcode it back to webm and so on..
[22:20] <TMM> unsurprising :)
[22:20] <tsoliman> :(
[22:20] <TMM> the internet is the worst
[22:20] <TMM> :P
[22:22] <tsoliman> compare https://gfycat.com/HorribleLivelyCatbird and https://giant.gfycat.com/HorribleLivelyCatbird.gif
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[00:00] --- Fri May 12 2017