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[00:12] <snover> i think cranston manor is the one with only two copies in the known universe
[00:13] <snover> im just proud of myself for not accidentally writing cranston manner
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[00:22] <criezy> snover, should the number of games be changed to 23 then in the news post?
[00:22] <snover> i mean
[00:22] <snover> i regret everything
[00:25] <snover> mistakes are learning opportunities i am just not sure what i am learning here other than that i cant do things quickly without making more mistakes :
[00:25] <snover> :)* bbiaf
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[00:52] <snover> criezy: thank you for sending that email, i had one half-written yesterday but i was annoyed by the version stuff so i didnt send it since i just sounded annoyed :)
[00:54] <snover> as far as freezes go, is there a reason why the release process doesnt just have us do a 2.0 branch now and cherry-pick fixes out of master as needed?
[00:55] <snover> (maybe some hold-over from how much of a pain it was in svn to manage branches?)
[00:55] <dreammaster> I don't see any reason why not. That's how things are normally done during release periods
[00:56] <dreammaster> Or vice versa
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[00:58] <criezy> I wondered about that when writing that email.
[00:58] <criezy> That's how it was done historically, but maybe we could indeed branch sooner.
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[00:59] <snover> one thing i am worried about is this last-minute drascula change that happened which i saw some comments about, i wonder if that should be pulled from the release branch
[00:59] <snover> i guess i also need to delete the ADGF_TESTING flags from SCI32&
[01:00] <criezy> Ah right. I wanted to have a look at those changes to the drascula and check the original code.
[01:00] <criezy> I think they should be OK, but I will make a note to look anyway this weekend.
[01:01] <criezy> The NEWS file is probably missing a lot of things as well, I will try to remember to also have a look at that.
[01:03] <snover> indeed. at one point i tried to freshen that by reviewing the commit history but there are over 5500 commits since the last version
[01:04] <criezy> Yeah, I am wondering what woul be the best strategy there.
[01:04] <criezy> If I ignore commits to engine, that should reduce the number of commits a lot,
[01:04] <snover> NEWS: everything is better now
[01:04] <snover> :)
[01:05] <criezy> Short and to the point. I like it.
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[01:06] <Lightkey> https://www.gog.com/promo/20171121_black_friday_sale_might_magic_pack btw
[01:08] <criezy> I will get some sleep now so that I have plenty of energy to update that NEWS file later in the week.
[01:08] <criezy> Good night
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[02:27] <snover> oh, oh. i thought of the reason.
[02:27] <snover> relying on buildbot for updated builds, it only builds for master.
[02:28] <snover> so thats something i am fixing in the future.
[02:28] <snover> but it is a reason why we cant just create a feature branch now.
[02:28] <snover> er. release branch. my brain is not doing well with the words lately.
[02:29] <dreammaster> Fair enough. Any bugfixes can be done just as easily on master for now, as long as we hold off doing any experimental work on any of the enabled engines that shouldn't go into the release
[02:30] <snover> the new buildbot is already set up to build all branches so that wont be so much of an issue in the future.
[02:30] <dreammaster> So it won't really affect my Xeen work
[02:30] <snover> lucky you ;)
[02:31] <snover> we could create a parallel unstable branch during the release that gets merged into master too, to avoid making people queue changes.
[02:31] <snover> i guess since i have only been doing bug fixes anyway ill just end up committing to master right up until the end anyway.
[02:32] <dreammaster> Comitting directly to master is probably going to be a novel thing for you :)
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[02:44] <snover> what can i say, i like my pull request reviews.
[03:26] <snover> hrfff. that update-versions.pl missed snapcraft.yaml
[03:46] <snover> anyone with an android device that knows how to run `adb install`, i would appreciate it if you could try these APKs and let me know if they start with a black screen or not https://bugs.scummvm.org/ticket/10024#comment:6
[03:47] <tsoliman> how new does the device has to be?
[03:47] <snover> like 7 years
[03:47] <tsoliman> I have a galaxy S3 somewhere
[03:47] <snover> i ran it on an android tablet whose latest official os version is 4.1, so.
[03:48] <tsoliman> yeah I have one of those with 3.x that I put cyanogenmod 4.x on
[03:48] <snover> (ive been looking into loading lineageos on it, but i dont have a spare microsd to do that with, so i am waiting until friday to see if there are any discounted ones)
[03:48] <tsoliman> (I stopped hacking android while it was still called cyanogenmod)
[03:49] <snover> loading roms is not fun. i dont really understand how it is still a thing where the instructions are half-written.
[03:49] <tsoliman> the best discount = a handmedown
[03:50] <snover> the how to install instructions for this one on xda-developers is literally Follow the usual procedure
[03:50] <snover> good advice, if you spend your life doing nothing but installing roms on your phone or whatever
[03:50] <snover> and so know what the usual procedure is
[03:54] <tsoliman> follow the usual procedure sounds like a good way to avoid putting outdated instructions
[03:55] <tsoliman> once upon a time it was required to get root to install any of this stuff
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[04:03] <snover> perhaps, in which case they could make a hyperlink on this world wide web to the instructions :)
[04:13] <snover> i meant to put the word newfangled in there somewhere
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[04:13] <snover> just to bolster my street cred as a grouchy old man
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[08:10] <logix> snover: still need android testers?
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[08:48] <Deledrius> *beep boop ## androids test games ## beep boop*
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[16:45] <snover> tsoliman: and lo, the microsd cards become 50% cheaper.
[16:48] <logix> $15 for 64 gb, sweet
[16:49] <snover> logix: i will again in a bit. it bugs me that this leanback activity is causing problems, so i need to figure out how to fix it so it isnt removed and also doesnt cause problems. there is a second issue now which is that libmpeg2 contains non-position-independent ARM assembly which Android 23+ refuses to allow, so i am looking now at how i can nuke the assembly code
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[16:53] <wjp> hm, I don't think I remember a clean way of doing that without sabotaging it in configure
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[16:56] <snover> yeah, turns out i already sabotaged it on samsungtv builder
[17:01] <snover> i feel like i am missing some important knowledge about how to make only the library part of these gnu build system makefiles
[17:02] <snover> most of these are still building a bunch of utility binaries that i dont want or care about

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[17:05] <wjp> this particular one you can possibly just run make in the libmpeg2 subdir
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[17:39] <joostp> snover: you can merge the leanback activity with the main one and just have both intents (LAUNCHER and LEANBACK_LAUNCHER) in the intent-filter
[17:39] <snover> joostp: thats what i have just done. i am in the middle of reading through the manifest documentation to understand it more completely.
[17:39] <waltervn> joostp!
[17:40] <snover> i thought maybe the banner was needing to not exist for non-leanback activities, but i just finished reading that it is only for android tv.
[17:40] <joostp> waltervn: hello!
[17:41] <joostp> yes, that just gets ignored on non-androidtv, so you can specify it all in the same activity
[17:42] <snover> the wifi permission was also made required by the addition of the cloud save stuff, im not sure if that should really be required.
[17:43] <snover> my tablet also complains on startup that scummvm isnt designed for tablets so i am seeing what needs to change there to make that stop happening.
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[17:45] <joostp> perhaps the targetSdkVersion is set to something from before android tablets existed
[17:45] <joostp> just a guess though
[17:46] <snover> i thought i had bumped it but it looks like i didnt. ill give that a try too.
[17:48] <snover> android is way too popular to be in such a poor state, so i guess i will need to take some time to make these things better in the next release.
[17:55] <wjp> it's still a bit of a mystery to me why we have so few developers interested in android development. (Or Windows development, for that matter...)
[17:56] <snover> i cant see anything that processes AndroidManifest.xml.in into AndroidManifest.xml. is this in-file vestigial?
[17:57] <wjp> devtools/update-version.pl
[17:57] <snover> ah.
[17:58] <snover> thanks.
[18:02] <wjp> I suppose the list of files to package at http://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php/HOWTO-Release is out of date again
[18:03] <snover> seems so. i guess i will fall back on my usual mantra of deduplicate and automate :)
[18:03] <wjp> I don't think there's _any_ authoritative copy of this list
[18:03] <wjp> maybe we should re-arrange the dists/engine-data directory so that all files in there should just get packaged
[18:05] <snover> is the DIST_FILES_ENGINEDATA in make not authoritative?
[18:05] <wjp> oh
[18:05] <wjp> maybe it is
[18:06] <wjp> but it's ... hard to parse
[18:06] <snover> buildbot needed a new make rule to get all the engine data so on my buildbot branch one can now run `make print-dists` and it will spit it out
[18:06] <snover> well, get all the dist files, really, not just the engine data dists
[18:07] <snover> anything starting with DIST_FILES_, basically.
[18:08] <wjp> I should maybe clean up our .spec not to need this anymore
[18:08] <wjp> no time like the present I suppose...
[18:11] Action: wjp should maybe also create a Docker image to build RPMs
[18:14] <snover> yeah, i would like to expand the buildbot functionality a bit more to build proper packages, not just archive stuff up
[18:15] <snover> my end goal is for buildbot to be the authoritative source for all of our builds, to reduce the number of manual processes that exist currently around releases so releases can be done whenever, in an automated manner
[18:16] <snover> and then porters will just need to provide code fixes and updates to the workers
[18:16] <wjp> that sounds great
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[18:32] <wjp> hrm
[18:32] <wjp> are we enabling cloud things for this release?
[18:32] <snover> where do they go to?
[18:33] <wjp> I mean the cloud/curl/sdlnet build flags
[18:33] <snover> they are enabled by default if the libraries exist, so i would assume so
[18:33] <wjp> hrm
[18:35] <snover> i havent looked at it in any detail, i always turn it off on my own builds. i think that there might need to be some more work on the buildbot workers to make sure an ssl library is always available, since right now libcurl is probably sometimes being compiled without it, which wont work
[18:36] <bgK> has the custom web server been security tested/reviewed?
[18:36] <snover> thats another question i have had about the whole thing, what kind of security review was done before it landed
[18:37] <wjp> I'm browsing the ML archive to find the discussion from 1.9
[18:37] <wjp> I seem to recall we decided against enabling it in release builds for this reason
[18:39] <snover> :(
[18:39] <wjp> Also I think the cloud storage oauth things are still on tkachov's personal name/account
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[18:41] <tsoliman> snover I won't be able to do the android thing today like I planned- life is crazy today - is it ok if this waits till tomorrow?
[18:41] <wjp> https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/commit/e6c104738ee6bdf9aad928391a8b13bc91906c3e
[18:41] <wjp> we disabled it in on branch-1-9
[18:42] <snover> tsoliman: not a problem! another person kindly did some additional testing, so i think i have a handle on the issue. as many tests as possible is great, and it is ok if they dont happen today.
[18:43] <snover> so do test it at some point soon, and dont worry if it is not today.
[18:43] <snover> so& hm.
[18:44] <snover> i guess it needs to be disabled again. i am afraid this is going to turn into event recorder all over again :\
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[19:39] <wjp> snover: coming back to earlier: for faad2 you can do 'install -C libfaad all install', and for mpeg2 'make -C libmpeg all install; make -C include all install"
[19:39] <wjp> (after ./configure of course)
[19:40] <wjp> those are the two that don't have native fedora packages, in case you're wondering :-)
[19:41] <snover> got it! thank you for looking into it. i imagine the same pattern of using the directory flag is adaptable to the rest of them.
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[19:50] <snover> wjp: should we maybe be using something like https://github.com/jordansissel/fpm instead of setting up separate OSs for it?
[19:52] <wjp> any idea how that deals with dependencies?
[19:53] <snover> i have no idea, i just did a quick search for building rpm and deb from the same build
[19:53] <snover> and this is what popped out
[19:56] <snover> it looks a little immature.
[19:57] <snover> it also looks a little popular.
[19:57] <wjp> (note to self: making a typo in the multi-job make command and accidentally doing 'make -j' is _NOT_ a good idea)
[19:58] <snover> heh. free fork bomb!
[19:59] <wjp> took me a while to realize that this unfamiliar 3rd colour in my load monitor was swap :-)
[20:03] <snover> i dont understand how someone thought that behaviour of -j was a good idea
[20:03] <snover> and how it has persisted to this day
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[20:04] <GitHub123> [scummvm] csnover pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/vFxia
[20:04] <GitHub123> scummvm/master 2dfa1fa Colin Snover: DEVTOOLS: Add Snap manifest to update-version.pl
[20:04] <GitHub123> scummvm/master 583c7cf Colin Snover: ANDROID: Clean up AndroidManifest.xml...
[20:04] <GitHub123> scummvm/master 404657d Colin Snover: ANDROID: Remove unnecessary additional activity...
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[20:07] <snover> wjp: speaking of old things, as i have been using these docker images to run one-off builds for myself for testing purposes, and knowing you have been doing similarly, i am wondering how you are feeling lately about having compiler stuff configured in buildbot.cfg versus Dockerfile when it could go into Dockerfile.
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[20:07] <snover> I know before you were feeling like the path should be excluded and the --with-foo-prefix flags used. do you still feel so?
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[20:14] <wjp> I feel like the target sysroot shouldn't be in PATH, right
[20:15] <wjp> but I guess your point is that this makes the configure command significantly less trivial?
[20:17] <snover> yeah. i mean it is still never fully trivial since it needs a --host and maybe some other things, but at least its unnecessary to also remember that you need to specify the sysroot bin path three times
[20:17] <wjp> just a random thought, but do you have any idea how many dependencies have proper pkgconfig files set up nowadays? (Which would be an option instead of the xyz-config scripts)
[20:18] <snover> i dont know but i can look at the android worker, one sec.
[20:21] <snover> all of our dependencies except for faad2 and libmad, it seems.
[20:22] <wjp> neither has an xyz-config script right?
[20:22] <snover> correct.
[20:22] <wjp> so a slightly radical idea could be to avoid the xyz-config scripts altogether
[20:23] <wjp> of course then we'd only move the problem to telling pkg-config if it's cross-building or not
[20:24] <snover> libvorbis uses pkg-config to find libogg so it must be working in some manner already for cross-builds
[20:30] <bgK> about docker based toolchains: https://github.com/bgK/scummvm-msvc-toolchain-docker
[20:30] <L0ngcat> congrats on release testing. nice work everyone!
[20:30] Action: wjp almost has scummvm.spec back in working order...
[20:31] <snover> bgK: oooo.
[20:31] <wjp> oh wow
[20:31] <wjp> dare I ask how big that image gets?
[20:31] <bgK> I have not looked into doing the buildbot integration though
[20:32] <bgK> it's 3Gb
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[20:33] <bgK> but could probably be cut down a bit by doing a two stage build
[20:34] <wjp> where does it get the actual compiler from?
[20:35] <wjp> but maybe I should actually look instead of being lazy and asking
[20:35] <wjp> aha
[20:35] <snover> hey, i am glad to not be the only person asking lazy questions
[20:35] <snover> please be lazy more often so i feel better about myself :)
[20:35] <wjp> that's an interesting set of download commands
[20:36] <wjp> snover: if you insist... ;-)
[20:36] <bgK> a release build with default engines is:
[20:36] <bgK> real 11m35.431s
[20:36] <bgK> user 37m1.169s
[20:36] <bgK> sys 5m20.545s
[20:37] <snover> that seems in line with the amount of time it takes for the other compilers without ccache
[20:38] <bgK> if you want to try it, create_project from my create-project-cmake-msvc branch is required
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[20:41] <wjp> why is that?
[20:44] <bgK> because the msvc compiler from nuget does not come with msbuild, meaning we can't use the VS solutions generated by create_project
[20:44] <bgK> as a workaround, I've patched the CMake output of create_project to produce MSVC compatible build instructions
[20:49] <snover> but msbuild is available separately on nuget is it not?
[20:51] <snover> oh, it is apparently also open source. so thats neat.
[20:51] <bgK> is it?
[20:51] <snover> https://github.com/Microsoft/msbuild/
[20:52] <bgK> oh, looks like it's .NET
[20:53] <snover> theyre getting dangerously close to not even needing wine with all this open-source work theyve been doing.
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[20:59] <snover> looks like ddg was seeing an older unlisted package in nuget for msbuild rather than something that is actively updated. oh well. in either case, this is a super cool image, bgK!
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[21:01] <snover> you can get the msbuild releases from https://github.com/Microsoft/msbuild/releases.
[21:01] <snover> maybe. no binaries. nevermind&
[21:02] <bgK> I kind of like the idea of using CMake since Visual Studio 2017 can open CMake projects natively
[21:03] <snover> https://aka.ms/vs/15/release/vs_community.exe there it is.
[21:03] <snover> oh
[21:03] <snover> neat
[21:03] <snover> i like cmake too
[21:04] <snover> i still have a desire deep in my heart to use cmake by default.
[21:04] Action: wjp shudders
[21:04] <snover> why do people not like cmake! aaaaa. :)
[21:04] <wjp> try debugging it when things go wrong
[21:05] <wjp> which they inevitable do since people (as usual) tend to make a mess of CMakeLists
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[21:08] <snover> its terrifying to hear that there could be something harder to debug than gnu build tools
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[21:10] <wjp> those are just shell scripts :-)
[21:11] <logix> a bunch of "echos" and running them as "sh -x configure" etc. usually helps
[21:11] <logix> make that "echo"s
[21:11] <logix> also, "env" to dump the current environment
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[21:11] <wjp> although I usually don't need to get beyond config.log plus visual inspection of configure.ac
[21:12] <snover> i just know i did not have a very easy time figuring out all the magic to get the libraries to build for all the cross-compilers :)
[21:12] <criezy> Goood evening
[21:12] <snover> sometimes they needed to have autoreconf executed, sometimes they needed some guess files to be deleted first
[21:12] <logix> snover: oh, *fixing* things? that's a different issue, yes
[21:13] <snover> when they broke sometimes it would be with a cryptic compiler cannot generate executables due to totally unrelated reasons which were not obvious to me in the logs
[21:13] <logix> *debugging* them to realize "and HERE is where the magi^Wshit hits the fan", that's usually not too hard
[21:13] <snover> other times they would just break with a shell syntax error if some dependency was not set up correctly
[21:14] <logix> snover: for "compiler cannot create executables" it usually was enough for me to look at config.log
[21:14] <snover> so anyway. i just mean: yikes!
[21:14] <snover> criezy: hi!
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[21:17] <GitHub110> [scummvm] dreammaster pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vFxDR
[21:17] <GitHub110> scummvm/master 23006ec Paul Gilbert: XEEN: Add playback for atmospheric music during map loading
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[21:17] <snover> logix: it probably helps to not be such a huge noob like me :)
[21:18] <criezy> Regarding cloud/sdlnet/curl, I think we will need to disable those again for this release.
[21:18] <criezy> Beyond problems with the oauth accounts, and maybe security, there is also stability issues.
[21:19] <criezy> There has been very little testing, and known crashes.
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[21:22] <logix> snover: I suppose I'd say the same about cmake - if "cmake .." fails with an error, all hope is lost with me and I usually just paste the error into google :/
[21:25] <logix> well, unless there's obviously just an environment variable unset or a directory missing in PATH or so, but I also have to google how to set cmake variables...
[21:27] <wjp> what I really miss is an equivalent to "./configure --help" and then the option to easily compose the necessary ./configure command
[21:27] <wjp> most often I can manage to get a cmake build working with e.g., ccmake, but that's very ... manual
[21:28] <wjp> or I still hope that I'm just missing something in how cmake works
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[21:28] <GitHub76> [scummvm] dreammaster pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vFxyT
[21:28] <GitHub76> scummvm/master 1d5453c Paul Gilbert: XEEN: Fix music/background loading for town locations
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[21:33] <bgK> I like how CMake has become a standard way to configure IDEs and editors, instead of manually setting the include paths and build flags
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[21:34] <wjp> isn't that just because it's newer and therefore is more likely to have the correct set of defaults?
[21:34] Action: wjp pokes github's bot
[21:34] <wjp> anyway, done with the Fedora spec updating for now
[21:34] <wjp> sadly it doesn't seem easily possible anymore to build a scummvm-tools RPM that runs on a reasonably wide range of Fedora releases
[21:35] <wjp> but the target audience of that is pretty tiny anyway
[21:35] <snover> who needs scummvm-tools?
[21:36] <snover> (it has been too long since i last worked with cmake to say anything intelligent about it, i just remember it being quite nice when i did.)
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[21:53] <snover> bgK: did you by change happen to look into https://bugs.scummvm.org/ticket/10321 at all?
[21:53] <snover> or were planning to?
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[21:55] <snover> that and #7031 i think are the last things i can really tackle on the blockers list. #9705 is probably going to end up being a wontfix unless someone feels like taking the time to graft Common::MemoryPool onto the engine.
[21:56] <snover> dealing with the race condition between the OPL timer callback and destruction of the audio mixer, and the UB in SCUMMs save game system, are too radical changes to put in at the end of a release cycle.
[21:58] <snover> from the history, #5958 looks like some possible save game corruption that it doesnt seem anyone ever was able to follow up on, and tsoliman could not reproduce #6551.
[21:58] <snover> i dont have any copy of Ghost in the Sheet for #6533.
[21:58] <snover> and thats all of them.
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[22:36] <snover> wjp: if you ever have some time and can write down some of the cmake problems youve had, with some examples of broken stuff that caused a headache in the past if you can find any of them, i would be interested to learn more so i can be better informed and see if things have improved or not in newer versions.
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[23:56] <GitHub162> [scummvm] dreammaster pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vFx5c
[23:56] <GitHub162> scummvm/master 63b0b41 Paul Gilbert: XEEN: Fix switching characters within town actions
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[00:00] --- Fri Nov 24 2017